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Campagnolo 13-speed EKAR groupset

The Strada launched as the world's first road bike for 1x drivetrains. A great bike with 1x11, but we always knew upcoming 1x12 and 1x13 groups would make it even better. Campagnolo 13-speed EKAR does exactly that.

Posted by Gerard Vroomen - 24 September 2020

The launch of Campagnolo 13-speed EKAR brings to an end a 5-year saga for me. In this post I’ll tell you all about my discussions with Campagnolo in that period, how it influenced some 3T bikes that are already on the market and what this means going forward.

Early discussions (Campagnolo 13-speed is still far away)

At Eurobike 2015, Campagnolo’s engineers and sales manager invited me to a sneak preview of their first disc brake groupset. I love these sorts of meetings, because I have always been obsessed with drivetrains, gear ratios and the like, but without any desire to get into that business. So whether it’s SRAM, Shimano or Campagnolo, if people want to brainstorm, I’m in.

The brakes they showed me were very nice, but the rest of the drivetrain was pretty standard. So with the eternal “drivetrain ratio” spreadsheet in the back of my head, I tried to convince them to go radical, to change to a 1x drivetrain and really leapfrog the existing group sets on the market.

We had a great discussion about flatmount and postmount (that was still a thing back then), on how much range future road and gravel bikes would need, how to potentially do that with 1x while getting enough range and small steps, and funnily enough I told them about wanting a 9T starting cog (remember I never had any desire to be in the drivetrain business).

I didn’t actually think any of this would happen, it was just a couple of engineers dreaming out loud. A few years later we introduced some 3T cassettes, 11-speed and starting with a 9T cog. Not because I wanted to, but because we needed it for the Strada.

When I told one of the Campagnolo engineers that we actually found surprisingly good drag numbers on the 9T cog, he said he was not surprised. Seems they had already been thinking the same things (and probably 1000’s of other things I had never considered).

Strada

Meanwhile in 2017, we introduced the Strada, the aero road bike designed around comfort with wider tires and a 1x drivetrain. At the time, 1×11 was the standard, and although that works for a group of riders (and a little better with our 9-32T cassette), we also knew that 1×12 and 1×13 would make things even better. We knew several drivetrain makers were working on those, so we launched in anticipation of them appearing.

SRAM AXS

And then it went quiet. It was only in the first half of 2019 that SRAM AXS 1×12 arrived. Obviously it came a little later than we had thought, but it immediately lifted the appeal of the Strada.

12-speed electronic shifting, beautiful levers, good brakes, lightweight, it all matched perfectly with the Strada. Until today, our entire Strada line-up consists of SRAM AXS bikes.

SeaOtter 2019

I had already heard some things about a new Campagnolo 13-speed drivetrain and at SeaOtter 2019, they showed me a groupset that was everything I wanted: 13-speed, 3 cassette combinations almost exactly as I had on my spreadsheet and unbelievably: a 9T starting cog for 2 of the 3 cassette options.

The trick of starting with the 9T helps to space your cogs more closely in the middle of the cassette. It’s something crucial for 11-speed cassettes where each cog is at such a premium. But even with the abundance of 13 cogs, it does wonders.

The final EKAR groupset

As you can see in the photos, the final Campagnolo 13-speed EKAR groupset is beautiful. Carbon crank, intricate rear derailleur, “industrial chique” brake calipers and nicely sculpted (and very comfy) levers. but most importantly, 3 great cassette options:

9-36T: 9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-27-31-36

9-42T: 9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-21-25-30-36-42

10-44T: 10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-26-32-38-44

Keep in mind that because of the 9T cog, your chainring can be a lot smaller, so a 40T chainring is probably enough on your road bike (and otherwise a 42T). That in turn shows you how generous the climbing gearing is, even on the 9-36T cassette.

One thing people may be surprised to see is that the groupset is mechanical, not electronic. I’m agnostic on the subject, I really don’t care if my shifters are mechanical or electronic.

I see an advantage for electronic on the front derailleur (automatic trim) but for 1x that obviously doesn’t apply since there is no front derailleur. Almost everything else on a drivetrain is more important to me than mechanical vs electronic.

And personally I think a little bit of reliable old-school thrown into this revolutionary drivetrain is rather neat.

Strada Campagnolo 13-speed EKAR edition

To celebrate the launch of EKAR, we’re introducing a limited edition Strada with a custom Campagnolo paint, EKAR drivetrain and Campagnolo Shamal Carbon wheels (If you’re more interested in an Exploro gravel bike with EKAR, then check this out).

A very limited number of them is available today, some more will be available in October and November. So be sure to order yours today.

Below are some more photos of the bike, while specs can be found here.

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89 responses to “Campagnolo 13-speed EKAR groupset”

  1. G

    Graham says:

    24 January 2021

    Hi Gerard,

    Looking to purchase the Strada Ekar 1×13, my only concern is that there may be an updated model later in the year. Can you confirm if there will be an updated version later this?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      25 January 2021

      Hi Graham, we’re always thinking about improvements but right now there aren’t any new Strada models planned.

      Reply
  2. T

    Tim says:

    21 December 2020

    Hi Gerard,

    Late to the party and building an 11 speed Strada this winter for some flattish blasting around SE England. My previous plans for a ‘one bike’ were overriden by the desire to try the Strada! I’m using the Bailout which is the best compromise solution with the 11S I had already started sourcing. For me and many Strada owners the Bailout would be better with 14T replacing the 9T (to make it a 10-32). No one seems to have a 10 up solution without going to the SRAM 12S (and replacing too many parts). Any plans for an updated Bailout or are you aware if any of the other players are investing in 11S?

    Reply
  3. S

    Stephen Cant says:

    02 December 2020

    Is it possible to upgrade an older strada with the sram set using the campagnolo cassettes? or would the mix and matching cause problems?

    I wouldn’t mind having a 10-44T

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      02 December 2020

      Hi Stephen, you mean the whole drivetrain stays SRAM and the cassette changes to EKAR? That wouldn’t work, the spacing is different and EKAR has 13-speed and SRAM 12. If you mean exchanging the whole drivetrain from SRAM to EKAR, that’s no problem on the frame side, but you would need to convert the wheel to the Campagnolo N3W free hub. Depending on the wheel, that could be easy or impossible.

      Reply
  4. N

    Niko says:

    19 November 2020

    Any idea on compatibility of chain and derailleur with Rotor cassettes? I like that Rotor 13 speed cassettes fit Shimano freehubs.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      02 December 2020

      Hi Niko, actually the 13-speed ROTOR cassettes don’t fit Shimano freehubs. Only their 12-speed version fits Shimano freehubs. And even then, the spacing for ROTOR 13-speed is much wider than for EKAR (Rotor is really 12-speed spacing of say SRAM plus one extra cog, Campagnolo more or less squeezes the 13th cog into the existing space).

      Reply
  5. J

    Jappie says:

    14 November 2020

    Hi, struggling with 52/36 – 11/28 the new 1x 13 looks very promissing! How do you think about the Shamal wheelset with 28mm tires? Will there be versions available with Ekar and 3T wheelsets?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      02 December 2020

      Hi Jappie, as of this month, the Discus 45|40 is available in an EKAR-compatible version (although I am sure sold out again quickly, but more coming). The Discus 45|32 will also be compatible soon. That is to say, it is already compatible and if you own one already, you can switch it to the N3W freehub you need. But it still takes a few weeks before have them in stock.

      Reply
      1. J

        Jappie says:

        08 December 2020

        I ordered basis Discus 45|32, thanks!

        Reply
  6. P

    Peter says:

    04 November 2020

    Hi,
    The handlebar specified in the build is the super ergo but the photos show the aeroflux? I presume the aero set up is with the aeroflux?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      09 November 2020

      Hi Peter, as applies to pretty much the whole industry, supply lines are really stretched right now. So right now, Superergo is the stock bar, Aeroflux is short stocked for a while.

      Reply
      1. P

        Peter says:

        10 November 2020

        Hmmm- ordered back in September on the assumption that it came with the aero flux as specified on the Australian distributor information. Definitely after the aero bars. How do I know what it will turn up with or are all super-ergo? Which I would be less happy with.

        Reply
  7. D

    Daniel Martin Dal Gesso says:

    25 October 2020

    Hi Gerard,
    Looking at their new N3W freehub:

    https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/next_3_ways

    It looks like Campy is going to launch new cassettes with 9T or even better, 13 speeds for road also.
    What do you think is more likely or makes more sense?
    A new SuperRecord 12 speed with 9t or SR 13 speed?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      25 October 2020

      Hi Daniel, I am not sure I understand your question. EKAR uses the N3W free hub and is perfect for road too. There’s no difference between the 1×13 needs for road or gravel, other than maybe the range of the cassette. But with the 3 cassettes they offer, the 9-36 is perfect for road (similar to say a 52-36 crank with an 11-30 cassette). So no need to wait for SuperRecord, the Strada with EKAR in this post is already there.

      Reply
      1. D

        Daniel Martín Dal Gesso says:

        25 October 2020

        Ekar is perfect right now, I agree, but a road specific 1×13 groupset would be lighter.
        The sram axs 1×12 is already almost 200 grs lighter than the Ekar (with less range, for sure).
        Obviously the gravel groupsets are designed to be more sturdy/strong, but a good amount of weight can still be saved IMO.
        I just was guessing (hoping:) that with the new N3W freehub launch a new 1×13 for road may be imminent.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          26 October 2020

          EKAR is around the same weight as SRAM Red AXS and lighter than Force AXS.

          And of course AXS is also for road and gravel. So if a company the size of SRAM doesn’t split it up between road and gravel, I doubt Campagnolo would.

          I also think you overestimate the weights that could be saved when making it “road-only”. The tests that these parts need to pass would be the exact same ISO tests and also technically you need the same features (it’s not like you could remove the clutch for road or anything like that). Maybe here and there you can shave off some protection, but if that saves 20g it’d be a lot. And I’d rather have the extra protection on road too.

          Of course if EKAR is not light enough for you, you can always change the crank for a 3T Torno.

          Reply
          1. M

            Matt says:

            21 February 2021

            Do other chainrings work for Ekar?

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              21 February 2021

              It depends. All our 12-speed Torno chainrings also work on EKAR (not 100% as smooth as the Campagnolo chainring but no problems) and in a few months we will have chainrings made by Campagnolo for the Torno.

              Reply
  8. Xyse says:

    11 October 2020

    Hi Gerard,

    For existing users who are forced to stop using the beautiful 3T Bailout after shifting to AXS, is there any plan to make a 12s successor for it for existing AXS owners? Ekar cassettes really makes me missed the Bailout and Overdrive.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      26 October 2020

      We made our cassettes because nobody was making the gear ratios we wanted. Now somebody does, SRAM’s 10-36T is pretty much the same range as our 9-32T. And of course there is EKAR’s 9-36T. So no, we don’t plan to make any more cassettes as long as the companies that actually specialize in cassettes keep making the ratios we like.

      Reply
  9. R

    Ric says:

    06 October 2020

    I am curious about what power meter options (besides pedals) will be available? Also, I hope that a 3rd party like Wheels Mfg creates a thread together bottom bracket for PF applications.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      06 October 2020

      I’d stick with pedals but given the BCD, I would assume some crank-based systems will work to become compatible. But I don’t have any actual knowledge of companies working on it.

      Reply
      1. A

        Aaron Whiting says:

        09 October 2020

        I have the same question… with my Speedplay pedals, power meter options are limited.

        Reply
  10. H

    Horácio says:

    01 October 2020

    Hello, I would like to know the total weight of this bike, if it is possible.
    Thanks

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      06 October 2020

      With the full aero setup as shown, the S bike was 7.5kg.

      Reply
  11. Mikey says:

    30 September 2020

    A 10 tooth jump between cassettes on the biggest cogs with 11 speed doesn’t cause an issue for me using Apex1 so I’d have thought and 8 tooth jump on EKAR would be ok. Plus I don’t feel the need for as big a top gear when swapping to the gravel wheelset so down to a 10t top gear is fine by me! Would be good to hear it’s approved by the factory though.
    Thanks for the reply.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      02 December 2020

      Well, you can shrink your chainring to make sure your top gear isn’t too big. As for the bigger final jump, Campagnolo does a ton of testing on the shift performance and this is what they feel is appropriate. Different chain, different tooth profile, etc.

      Reply
  12. Mikey says:

    30 September 2020

    Very interesting. Does this solve the 2 wheelsets in one bike issue that AXS doesn’t? ie- one for the road and one for gravel. If you can swap between the 9-36 for the road wheelset and 10-44 for the gravel wheelset on the same bike with the same chain and chainring (40t sounds right for me) then they’re onto a winner.

    Reply
    1. Mikey says:

      30 September 2020

      On another point Gerard, I’m interested if you’ve spotted the new 11 speed Etap rear mech WITH clutch that SRAM have released. With a cage change or hanger extender, I’d think that would allow those of us with 11 speed gravel bikes to go cableless and have a 2 wheelset setup without chain issues etc. For me, I use the 3T 9-32 for road and 10-42 or 11-40 off-road and it works great for mechanical SRAM. But I hate double tap! Thanks

      Reply
      1. Gerard Vroomen says:

        30 September 2020

        Hi Mikey, I am not sure which rear mech you’re referring to. Do you have a link?

        Reply
        1. Mikey says:

          30 September 2020

          Hi Gerard- here’s the link:
          https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/rd-red-e-a2
          A subtle release but does make the old etap more workable for gravel. They’ve used the new AXS mech and reverse engineered it, by the sounds of it.

          Reply
          1. Gerard Vroomen says:

            30 September 2020

            That’s not really for sale anymore to OEMs like ourselves, so I can’t find too much info on it in our tech files. But certainly you’d need to play with the cage as it is only up to 32T as is.

            Reply
            1. Mikey says:

              30 September 2020

              A surprising release to update an old groupset, but a welcome one.
              I’m going to give it a go as I have full etap on my Strada currently, with a chain catcher mounted using the lowest bottle cage mount, so if I can get it to work with a 42t (possibly using a Garabuk cage) then I’ll move it to the gravel bike and go 12 or 13 speed for the Strada – more excuses for new parts!!

              Reply
    2. Gerard Vroomen says:

      30 September 2020

      It will require a little bit of tinkering to get the one chain length to work, but should be doable. With the 9-36 and the 9-42 it is definitely doable, and 9-42 is so much range that it might be a way to go. But it would be nice to get that 44T, I agree.

      Reply
  13. S

    Stanley Mdala says:

    28 September 2020

    Tubeless tyre keeps losing air soon as soon as the pump is removed. What could be causing the loss of pumped air?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      28 September 2020

      Without any noise indicating where it’s coming from? But it doesn’t lose air as long as the pump is attached? Then it’s obviously the valve. Other than that, many reasons could exist but I would just google “troubleshooting tubeless bike tires” and plenty of step by step approaches to get it to seal will pop up.

      Reply
  14. M

    Max Lein says:

    26 September 2020

    It’s great that Campag has launched a 1×13 groupset, and I agree that 13 speeds give you great compromise between closely spaced gears and range. However, Rotor has a 1×13 groupset on the market since 2018/2019 (I think it became widely available in 2019), any reason you didn’t mention their release on this blog when they were released? They offer even more cassette options (10-36, 10-39, 10-46 and 10-52).

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      26 September 2020

      I’m a fan of their cassettes (although I would prefer something between the 10-39 and 10-46) but I am not a fan of the hydraulic shifting.

      Reply
      1. M

        Max Lein says:

        27 September 2020

        Thanks for the reply. Is their hydraulic shifting that bad? Is it the feel of the shifters?
        (I have never tried any of their groupsets given that bikes equipped with Rotor groupsets are rare as hen’s teeth. But I have tried bikes with their cranks and they were pretty good.) Personally, I was hoping that Rotor, as an underdog, gains a little traction to put pressure on the two big boys to release 13-speed groupsets.

        Reply
        1. D

          Dave says:

          27 September 2020

          It is actually quite terrible, or should I say, not at the same level the usual players are today. There’s very little feedback on the levers and the indexing is at the RD, this makes over or undershifting a quite common event, which in turn results in the chain being sent all over the place, especially when shifting in a rush. On top of that precision in gereral is a bit lacking, even when nailing the lever stroke.

          Also, Rotor’s cassete is wider than Campag’s and that amounts to a fair amount of cross chain and even noise very often. Not a fan either.

          Reply
  15. R

    Ricardo Rocha says:

    26 September 2020

    I love the gearing and the looks. The price seems fair for such a pretty gruppo made in Italy…Unfortunately the q factor is a bit narrow for my weird bone structure. I wonder if aftermarket options from Woof Tooth et.al. will appear in the near future. I use pedal spindle extenders but you’re not supposed to put those on carbon cranks =\

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      26 September 2020

      hi Ricardo, why is the narrow Q a problem? Aside from spindle extenders, several pedals come with different axle lengths, so you can always go wider (of course also with cleat position on the shoe).

      Reply
  16. D

    Daniel Martin Dal Gesso says:

    25 September 2020

    This is awesome!
    I have my 3t Strada Team frame waiting for this!
    Is the 9/36 a big change from sram axs 1×12 10/33 range wise?
    I hope Shimano will launch its new durace soon, or Campy launches a 1×13 specifically for road, a fair amount of weight can still be saved IMO.
    After all the debate against 1x for road, if Campy, rotor, Sram points towards it, your vision Gerard was absolutely right.
    Congrats!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      25 September 2020

      Well, 330% vs 400%. But keep in mind with SRAM you can also get 10-36, so 360%. More on that here: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/05/14290/sram-force-axs-wide-gearing-hacks-gravel-bike-tech/

      Reply
      1. K

        Koen says:

        25 September 2020

        Contemplating on this build for the Exploro race (great looking bike!) however also think a dedicated road-oriented/flatlander cassette would be a much needed addition. Something like a 10-33 would be great for that with the first 8 cogs being single step.
        Currently it seems that there really is a “missing” gear between 6-7th cog esp. when cruising around 35kmh (+ or – 5 kmh depending wind conditions would push you in this big gap) no matter what chainring 38-44 (would that even fit the racemax?) all give this issue at some point.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          25 September 2020

          Well, the range from 38T to 44T is much bigger than the range from the 6th to the 7th cog (14T to 16T). So mathematically it can’t really be true that you need that 15T cog no matter what chainring you choose.

          At any rate, I don’t think a flatlander is a “much needed addition” the way Campagnolo looks at it. It’s a niche of a niche and one where a gazillion options already exist, especially when one could also think that many flatlanders don’t need a clutch, and so a Campy Chorus 2×12 rear derailleur with a normal 12-speed cassette would work. But I’m not Campy (although I am a flatlander).

          Reply
      2. M

        Max Lein says:

        26 September 2020

        When ordering a Strada 1x is it possible to replace the 10-33/Force eTap with 10-36/Force eTap Wide out of the factory?

        PS I’m currently test riding a Strada Due I have on load from my bike shop, what a cracking bike! Way more comfortable than my endurance road bike without being mushy. And this thing is a rocket. Can’t wait to get mine next spring.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          26 September 2020

          Hi Max, when you order from 3T.bike, you can simply ask the customer service people for that swap. No problem. When ordering from a store, you would ask them to make the swap.

          Reply
          1. M

            Max Lein says:

            27 September 2020

            That’s great to know, I really love this flexibility. Now all I need to do is wait till next February (it’s a birthday present to myself, wife approved and all)!

            Is that also an option when ordering via a LBS (I live in Japan)? I’d like to support them, because IMHO they are a vital piece of our cycling community.

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              27 September 2020

              By February this shouldn’t be a problem anywhere in the world.

              Reply
  17. S

    Scott Averin says:

    24 September 2020

    Hi Gerard,

    In the specs for this new Campy special release, it mentions a “New 3T Charlie Sqaero Team w/ Ritchey WCS Clamp.”

    Will this new clamp/seatpost be available for those with existing Strada frames to replace the….less than ideal design of the old clamp?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      24 September 2020

      That spec listing is actually an error, but a new Strada seatpost will be available early 2021.

      Reply
      1. S

        Scott Averin says:

        24 September 2020

        Thanks for the quick response. I also noticed that the seatpost for the Exploro Race has the same listing – can you confirm if the seatposts for the two frames (Strada and Exploro Race) are interchangeable?

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          24 September 2020

          I can confirm they are NOT interchangeable.

          Reply
          1. S

            Scott Averin says:

            26 September 2020

            I don’t mean to flog a dead horse here, but I got the following response from 3T customer service regarding the new Charlie Sqaero seatpost, which contradicts your above statement that they are not compatible:

            “This new Charlie seat post design will be compatible with all Strada TEAM/PRO and Strada DUE framesets. Unfortunately, the post will not be available for individual sale for a little while. We are working with our manufacturing facilities for a more accurate date.”

            Just looking for some additional clarification on whether or not the new Charlie Sqaero w/ WCS clamp will be compatible with the Strada? And if not, what makes it incompatible?

            Scott.

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              27 September 2020

              It’s not compatible, the shaft shape is different and switching them around will put undue stress on the seat tube.

              Reply
  18. A

    Andrew Lipsiner says:

    24 September 2020

    EXCELLENT NEWS , Gerard !!
    1×13 with the 3 cassette ratio options from
    #campagnolo, ….now helps 3T realize the true performance parameters/ potential that you and 3T engineer ‘ s orginally envisioned!!
    MEGA !!
    What does a complete build weigh in a small size frameset for riders at 172 cm height ?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      28 September 2020

      Hi Andrew, built up “standard” so with normal parts, inner tubes, etc, and everything aero (obviously the frame but also with the Aeroflux, the Shamal wheels, so as you see it in the photos), it will be around 7.5kg.

      Reply
  19. N

    Nikolay Petkov says:

    24 September 2020

    The Ekar looks to be a nice addition to the 1x options out there, no two words about it. However, I can’t help but feel a bit disappointed. Even with the huge 13 speed budget, some of the gearing options are downright puzzling (like those consecutive 20% jumps in the 9-42 cassette). Is it really necessary to have six 1-tooth jumps at the top end, on a gravel bike? There may be riders who need that, but I think the majority would prefer a more consistent behavior in the climbing gears. The 9-36 seems to be a better choice in this regard, but it offers little over what was already there. I’m really curious what Shimano’s response would be, and whether we’ll have to wait till 2022 to find out…

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      24 September 2020

      hi Nikolay, I don’t really see your logic. You don’t like the 9-42 because the steps are too big (though better than any other cassette with that range) and you don’t like the cassette that has beautifully small steps because it offers little over what is there already. The 9-36T cassette has the range in line with the 11-42 and 10-42 cassettes, but with vastly smaller steps. In 12-speed, there is not a single cassette in that 400%-ish range. So it offers something completely different from what is there already. The 10-42 and 11-42 cassettes start with 2-tooth steps and then it gets bigger from there, that’s a vast difference to a cassette that starts with six 1-tooth steps and then has three 2-tooth steps. In my opinion anyway.

      Reply
      1. N

        Nikolay Petkov says:

        25 September 2020

        Gerard, I’m not saying this is a bad product. What I pointed out is that there are some choices in the cassette spacing that seem suboptimal to me. It’s a matter of personal preference after all, what suits my tastes best does not have to appeal to everyone.

        I do not say that the 9-36t cassette is flawed or redundant in some way. It’s just that a 9-10-11-12-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36 combination has lower dispersion and a better progression in the last three transitions. Or the 10-36 portion was patented by SRAM, who knows.

        Similarly, a 10-11-12-13-15-17-19-22-25-29-33-38-44 has much better dispersion and exactly the same low/high gears, without that nasty 23% jump between 26 and 32t.

        In both cases, Campagnolo did prioritize higher count of consecutive cogs instead of more even spacing in the climbing gears. As I originally stated, some riders may prefer it this way, some the other. I’m just pointing out what I think would have worked better for me.

        Thanks for your reply!

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          25 September 2020

          There’s no patent on the sequencing, that I do know. I think the thought is more with teh 9-36 that if you are on your second-smallest gear and you need to go one smaller, you really need something smaller. So it’s not so much a 9-36 with big spacing in the end, it’s more like a 9-34T cassette and then you think “do I really need similar small steps for my two smallest gears, or do I consider I am already in trouble and anything that can keep me rolling is a good thing. One assumes you’re in control and the climb just gets a little bit tougher, then of course small steps are great. The other assumes you’re in trouble and you would sacrifice precision for a bigger chance to keep riding instead of walking. As you say, it’s personal, but I know I’m in the latter category 🙂

          Reply
        2. J

          John B. says:

          25 September 2020

          Agreed about that 26-32 jump! I would have thrown in some Andy Hampsten approved odd-numbered sprockets:

          …-26-31-37-44

          Reply
          1. Gerard Vroomen says:

            25 September 2020

            Funny you mention that. I suggested that too a while ago, but a 7t jump is a problem.

            Reply
  20. Nuno Pinto says:

    24 September 2020

    nice piece of evolution….what kind of freehub is that ? for sure a another proprietary from Campy…

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      24 September 2020

      It’s N3W, a new Campy freehub as of course a 9T wouldn’t fit any other way. But it’s retrofittable on many wheels including our current generation Discus and DiscusPlus. So not that big of a deal.

      Reply
  21. A

    Andrei says:

    24 September 2020

    Wow!! That’s sounds like a dream group set! I also have a question, do you need a specific crankset and chain ring to make it work with 1×13? Thanks,

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      24 September 2020

      Yes, you need a special chainring because the chain is thinner. There is one coming for the Torno soon.

      Reply
    2. A

      Andrei says:

      24 September 2020

      Another question, what kind of freehub driver do you need to fit new 1×13 cassette?
      Thanks

      Reply
      1. Gerard Vroomen says:

        24 September 2020

        Campy N3W, which can also be gotten as a retrofit on existing 3T Discus and Discuplus (available before the end of the year) and of course going forward.

        Reply
  22. J

    Jean-Luc Pueyo says:

    24 September 2020

    Dommage que ce velo ne comporte pas une version freinage à patins pour la route…

    Reply
  23. B

    BZE says:

    24 September 2020

    Thanks for sharing, would the 40 or 44t Torno chainring be compatible with the Ekar chain? Also wondering what caliper size/adapter is correct for the Strada pro? (Prefer 160).

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      24 September 2020

      Special 13-speed rings are coming. BTW 44×9 would be an enormous gear, like 54×11 so really for time trial world championships.

      Reply
      1. B

        BZE says:

        24 September 2020

        Thanks, yes was considering the 10-44 with 44 t. 9-36 with 40t looks good, but a little sceptical to 9t friction wise. 10-38 would be perfect for my use I think.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          24 September 2020

          with the 10-44 it makes sense. And I wouldn’t be so skeptical about the 9T either. But of course you need to try for yourself.

          Reply
      2. M

        Marc van der Wielen says:

        24 September 2020

        54×11 is pretty normal for crit racing. TT is moving to 56, 58 or even bigger (less friction loss).

        Do you have any info btw how the 9 and 10T perform? SRAMs 10T was quite a fail in this regards, which is why it’s disabled by WT teams.

        Reply
        1. J

          John B. says:

          24 September 2020

          Chain drives suffer from chordal action or polygon effect, which is more noticeable as sprockets get smaller. It becomes hard to form an accurate circle with less than 16 teeth and this link – http://blog.habasit.com/2017/06/what-is-chordal-action-or-the-polygon-effect/ – suggests not using less than 12 tooth sprockets for conveyor belts.
          Or, to put it another way, in these days of “marginal gains”, I don’t think anyone will try to break the hour record with a 9 or 10 tooth sprocket.

          Reply
          1. M

            Marc van der Wielen says:

            24 September 2020

            I mean actual data, not some general blahblah.

            How many watts do I lose at 300 or 400W, that’s all I’m interested in. 1, 5, 10, 20 or even more?

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              24 September 2020

              I told Campagnolo they should publish their data but I am not sure if they will or not.

              Reply
              1. M

                Marc van der Wielen says:

                24 September 2020

                Thanks a lot, Gerard.

                I truely wish Campy would be on top of things here and blow the other players out of the water (and I say that as a forever-Shimano-fan).

                This group looks fantastic and I hope it will be a big success for them.

                Reply
              2. C

                Chris Rocca says:

                04 October 2020

                I see a lot is made about teams not using the AXS 10-tooth cog. I came across this article published by SRAM. From your experience do you think their conclusion seems reasonable? They are saying 0.87% drivetrain loss using the same components.
                https://www.sram.com/en/life/stories/10-tooth-cogs-for-the-win

                Reply
                1. Gerard Vroomen says:

                  05 October 2020

                  One other thing to consider is that there are also many other effects. One is that starting with a smaller first cog means you can space your gears more closely in the middle. Hence you can find a gear better matching your preferred cadence there. What is the gain/loss of that? Plus the way SRAM has set up their pro teams, with the 10T being an overdrive, it means that often the SRAM rider and Shimano rider are both in the 11T, so then there is no difference in cog efficiency. and the SRAM rider has the advantage of a better chainline since his/her 11T is the second cog, not the first.

                  In the end it is very difficult to do a true apples to apples comparison, even that SRAM article doesn’t look at everything.

                  Reply
          2. Gerard Vroomen says:

            24 September 2020

            The blog you mention refers to standard engineering principles for industrial setups, which is somewhat comparable to a track bike (i.e. an hour record). On a derailleur system there is already a ton of chain movement while at the same time in road and gravel applications, the propulsion is nowhere near constant (engineering school will also teach you that a motor with just 2 pistons is far from ideal, but that’s what evolution gave us). And BTW,a much bigger effect than losing a couple of teeth on the cog.

            Reply
            1. J

              John B. says:

              24 September 2020

              It is true that bicycle drivetrains ignore general engineering principles in more ways than one and Moulton, for instance, have been using 9 tooth sprockets for decades. Per Marc vdW’s point though, it is interesting that World Tour teams eschew use of SRAM’s 10T cog.

              Reply
              1. Gerard Vroomen says:

                24 September 2020

                WT teams eschew modern technology in general. Took some teams 10 years to start using aero wheels, 20 to use power meters, etc. Old school mechanics run most WT teams, still pumping up tires to 12 bars if they could (and of course still tubulars in most cases. If resistance of any type was top of mind for them, they obviously wouldn’t).

                Reply
                1. J

                  John B. says:

                  25 September 2020

                  I agree regarding the conservative approach of World Tour teams in general, with Contador’s mechanic, in particular, coming to mind. However, and ironically, oversize derailleur jockey wheels have seen pretty wide adoption, even if they don’t stand to save anything like the same watts that a larger drive sprocket could.

                  Reply
          3. D

            Dave says:

            27 September 2020

            It is many years now since tooth profile in bicicle transmissions features variable pressure angle by means of variable radii, with the intenth of both favouring shifting and avoiding chordal action.

            Reply
          4. Erol Orhun says:

            12 December 2020

            I followed that link and spent the next 30 minutes reading about the history of belting technology… Fascinating honestly.

            Reply
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