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SRAM Force/Red/Eagle AXS hacks – Gravel Bike Tech

SRAM's new electronic drivetrains offer something simple but revolutionary: a common platform for road & mountain bike. Force, Red and Eagle AXS parts can be mixed, if you do it right. Here's how.

Posted by Gerard Vroomen - 28 September 2019

When SRAM launched their new electronic Force & Red road groups and Eagle mountain bike group, an additional moniker appeared: AXS. It’s pronounced “access” and it is SRAM’s way of indicating that these parts can all talk to each other.

There are also additional AXS shift buttons, an AXS dropper post, and who knows what else may follow (AXS lighting comes to mind).

Why would you care as a gravel rider? Well, if you’re like me, it probably went something like this:

“SRAM brings out new electronic road groupsets, with 1x and 2x options.” – “Yes!”
That’s great, because the majority of new high-end gravel bikes are spec’d 1x, but until now that meant mechanical shifting or a cobbled-together Di2 setup mixing road and MTB parts that Shimano doesn’t want you to mix. So every firmware update is a potential game-over for your shifting.

“These new groups are 12-speed.” “Yes!”
12-speed for a 2x gravel drivetrain is no big deal. 2×11 gives you more gears than you need, 2×12 gives you “more more” gears than you need. But for 1x, there are riding locations and riding styles where 11 speeds simply aren’t enough and that 12th cog makes all the difference.

“The biggest cassette for the road groups is a 10-33.” “Noooooooooo!”
That’s pretty much the exact sound we made when SRAM invited us for a preview 9 months before the AXS launch. We begged and pleaded for a bigger cassette, but that simply was not in the cards given the available timeframe.

That maximum 330% range is OK for a road bike, but the mixed surfaces and often tougher climbs you encounter on a gravel bike simply require more range.

Pure SRAM Force or Red 1×12 drivetrains don’t work for gravel. The gear range is useless.

If you already ride a 1×11 drivetrain you know this, since you probably use an 11-42 or 10-42 cassette. Going from that to a 10-33 is like throwing away the biggest two cogs! Nobody who rides gravel thinks “I don’t need my two biggest cogs”.

“But there are third-party cassettes like Rotor’s 11-39T”
Correct, and that’s a great cassette, but the Force AXS & Red AXS rear derailleurs can’t handle those cassettes. There is very little margin to go bigger than that 33T with these derailleurs.

“But we have AXS now.” “Yessssssssss!”
That’s where AXS comes to the rescue, if you do it right. Because of AXS, road shifters can communicate with mountain bike rear derailleurs. And mountainbike rear derailleurs can shift mountain bike cassettes, all the way up to 10-50.

So what do you need to make these mixed drivetrains work?
The AXS parts may be able to talk to each other, that doesn’t mean everything works together. You need to take care of a few things for a successful mixed AXS setup or as it is known internally at SRAM: the Mullet (business up front, party in the back).

You have to use an Eagle chain, a Flattop road chain will NOT work!

  • Shifters: Force or Red AXS, whichever your budget allows for. They are both great, my preference is the Force shifter for superior value-for-money.
  • Flatmount brakes: Obviously the world has gone flat mount (don’t get me started). Normally the brakes are packaged with the shifters, so unless you put in extra effort, you’ll get Red brakes with your Red shifters or Force brakes with your Force shifters.
  • Postmount brakes: Strangely, you won’t find these on SRAM’s own website, but the Red AXS group also includes a brand-new postmount brake caliper. So instead of using brackets, choose these if you still ride a postmount frame. Just search for “Red AXS postmount caliper” and you’ll find stores offering them. See below flatmount (left) vs postmount (right).

    SRAM will offer new one-piece forged aluminum disc brake calipers for the Red eTap HRD groupset, in both flat mount (left) and post mount varieties.
  • Rear derailleur: The Eagle AXS rear derailleur comes in two flavors: XO1 and XX1. The latter is the top of the range, with a carbon cage, while the XO1 sits just below it with an Aluminum cage. In the end, they are quite close in performance and weight. But they are also close in price, so you may want to opt for the XX1. I did.
  • Chain: This is the most important part. The Flattop road chain does NOT work in combination with the Eagle AXS rear derailleur. You have to use an Eagle chain. The reason is that the Eagle derailleur has standard pulleys, but the Flattop can only wrap around a pulley with teeth in one direction (the flat size doesn’t have enough space for full teeth. SRAM road AXS rear derailleurs have a special upper pulley to deal with the Flattop chain, but Eagle rear derailleurs do not.

  • Cassette for gravel use: The whole point of the mixed road/MTB drivetrain is to get a bigger cassette than 10-33T. We have tested every combination in the lab and on the road, below are what we recommend:
    • Eagle 10-50T cassette. The advantages are that it is light and offers a huge range, the disadvantage is that the range is really too big for most gravel applications. It’s great for MTB, but in gravel you could use a bit less (which is why the 10-42T is such a great cassette for 11-speed mechanical groupsets, that 420% range is magic).
    • Eagle 11-50T cassette. In my opinion this is a better cassette for most people. The smaller range means some of the steps are a bit smaller. On the downside, this cassette is not available in SRAM’s highest level, so the lightest 11-50T cassette is 250g heavier than the lightest 10-50T cassette.
    • Rotor’s 12-speed 11-46T cassette. This is a great hack of the system with a 418% range, so basically the same as that magical 420%. And with an extra cog so the steps are smaller. It shifts flawlessly with a SRAM Eagle AXS rear derailleur and chain.
    • Rotor’s 12-speed 11-39T cassette. Yes, this one also works with the Eagle AXS rear derailleur and Eagle chain! The range is small, but bigger than the 10-33T (355% vs 330%). It’s great for riders (I happens to be one) who don’t care about their top gear because they are a relaxed descender. You can use this cassette together with a small chainring (maybe 36T, depending on your strength and terrain) and enjoy very nice, small steps between the gears.
    • In the end, which cassette works best for you on gravel depends on where and how you ride. The 11-50 is a good middle ground, so we spec it on our Force-Eagle complete bikes. Be sure to always set the limit screws and B-tension correctly for the chosen cassette.
  • Cassette for road use: If you also want to use your gravel bike for serious road riding/racing, Rotor’s 12-speed 11-39T is great, and again the small steps will be appreciated. Just combine it with a bigger ring than you would for gravel, so maybe something in the  40T to 46T range
  • Cranks: There are a few options here:
    • The new SRAM road cranks come with DUB axles, with a 28.99mm instead of 30mm diameter. Most frames fit either axle size so who cares, but it means yet another standard. Other than that, the cranks are fine, except the chainline is pretty low at 45.0mm, so it favors the small gears over the big ones. I prefer a chainline around 47mm but this is not a crucial difference. No major difference between Red and Force. Both models come with chainrings optimized for Flattop chains, but they work perfectly well with the Eagle chain as well.
    • You can also opt for the power meter version. Luckily for 1x customers, the meter is separate from the rings (except for the 48T and 50T rings, but those are too big for gravel anyway). So that means you can swap out your ring without having to buy a new powermeter (It’s incredible to me that for 2x cranks, the power meter is permanently attached to the chainrings. So if you need new rings, you also need a new power meter).
    • Last but not least, you can also hack the groupset towards an even lighter and faster setup by using 3T’s very own Torno crank. It is designed specifically for 1x and tested to withstand the rigors of gravel riding. Because the mixed setup uses the Eagle chainring, all five chainring options offered with the Torno (36, 38, 40, 42, 44T) will work flawlessly. You can see it installed below (and in the action photo near the top of this article).

  • Chainrings: Which size do you need depends on which cassette you use, where you ride and how strong you are. The most popular chainring with the 11-speed 10-42 cassette is the 38T. Second most popular is the 40T and third is the 42T. Keeping that in mind, I would recommend the following for the three main cassette options for mixed AXS drivetrains:
    • With 10-50, I would recommend to use the same 38, 40 or 42T rings as before. So 38T for the toughest terrain and the least powerful riders, 42T for the strongest riders. Nobody needs more than 42×10 for gravel, taking into account where you ride and the fact that a gravel tire has a slightly bigger rollout than a road tire. That then leaves 42×50 as your smallest gear, small enough to ride up the side of a building.
    • With the 11-50, you can scale up your chainring a bit. To keep the same top gear, you would need a 42, 44 or 46T chainring respectively, but some might decide to “split the difference” and get some extra bottom gear, so that would mean going with a 40, 42 or 44T chainring.
    • With Rotor’s 11-46, you would want to get the same gears as on a 10-42, which means you need to scale up your rings 10%. So that gets you to a 42T ring for the least powerful riders and a 46T ring for the strongest riders.

Some final thoughts
Yes, I know some manufacturers spec gravel bikes with that 10-33 cassette despite what I write above. That doesn’t change the fact it doesn’t work.

Of course everybody is entitled to their opinion, but the real problem is that once you’ve gone down that road, fixing it gets REALLY expensive for the customer. As you’ve seen above, it requires not just a new cassette but also a new rear derailleur and chain, so roughly 800 USD/Euro.

If you have any comments or questions, or would like to suggest topics for future episodes of Gravel Tech, let me know below. Looking for more things to read?

  • If you’re interested in a gravel bike with Force/Eagle eTap AXS drivetrain, check out the Exploro Force/Eagle.
  • More a Shimano fan? you can read my thoughts about Shimano’s GRX gravel drivetrain here.
  • Looking to hack your drivetrain to achieve  the most extreme gears for 11-sp and 12-sp, Shimano or SRAM? Read part 1 here.
  • What tires should go with that bike? If you want one set of tires for everything, read this. If you plan to have separate road and gravel wheelset, check out this article.
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335 responses to “SRAM Force/Red/Eagle AXS hacks – Gravel Bike Tech”

  1. V

    VS says:

    11 May 2022

    Would a SRAM Rival AXS XPLR rear derailleur work with a 10-50T or 11-50T cassette?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      12 May 2022

      That combination is possible but not straightforward. blog coming on that topic hopefully soon.

      Reply
      1. Jan says:

        17 December 2022

        I was looking for this article but can’t find it on the blog. Is it coming? Thank you!

        Reply
  2. Lana Drahrepus says:

    01 April 2022

    How does a Seam Red/Force/Rival dérailleur shift with rotor cassettes? Flawless, smooth… clicking?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      01 April 2022

      They work best in combination with a KMC chain. We haven’t tried every combo but have not found the performance to be as smooth as some other options.

      Reply
      1. Lana Drahrepus says:

        02 April 2022

        Thanks for your fast reply. I am using Sram Red AXS with Garbaruk oversized cage and wheels with an Garbaruk 10-48t cassette. It is somehow OK in shifting but not 100%. I was hoping Rotors 11-46t would do better…

        Reply
  3. Stefano Sernani says:

    14 March 2022

    I would like to know if I can use the CN-EAGL-XX1-A2 chain with my Sram Force XG-1270, 10-36T cassette X Sram Force D1 DUB, Carbon, 40T crankset 1X. I am upgrading the pulley to an over sized cage from AB and I need to change the chain. And if I would like to gain more top speed which size or what do you recommend me to do?
    Bicycle: https://www.cube.eu/en/2022/bikes/road/cyclocross/cross-race/cube-cross-race-c68x-slt-frostwhitenorange/
    Thank you very much.

    Reply
  4. K

    Koen says:

    08 February 2022

    Hallo,

    Nice topic and very usefull. Many thanks!

    I love my gravelbike so much that i want to use it as a roadbike too.
    My current setup is: a force crank 40t and 10-50 cassette with XX1 AXS Eagle Derailleur.

    I will upgrade the front chainwheel from a 40T to a 46T. But i have got a question in respect to the cassette:
    Is it possible to combine a force X1270 road cassette (10-33 or 10-36) with the XX1 AXS Eagle Derailleur?

    Hope to hear from you!

    Thanks!

    Reply
  5. g

    guillermo says:

    25 December 2021

    Hello!
    it is possible to mix, 46/33T with a rear 10-50 cassette using an xx1 axs rear derailleur?

    Reply
    1. S

      SRAMMIE says:

      31 December 2021

      No, the Eagle AXS rear derailleurs are 1x only. The largest cassette range possible for use with a 2x system is 10-36t with the Red, Force, or Rival Max 36t rear derailleurs.

      Reply
  6. B

    Beat says:

    06 November 2021

    Force AXS 2×12 medium cage with Rotor 11-36 cassette and Rotor or Praxis Works Chainrings. Shall I use a SRAM flattop chain or better an”normal” 12-speed chain like KMC? If normal chain, does it needs other Pullyes at Rear Derailleur?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      09 November 2021

      Rotor recommends KMC.

      Reply
  7. L

    Loic says:

    19 October 2021

    Hi,

    do you know if you can mix Rival/Force/Red etap shifters ?

    Example : Rival etap Axs left shifter and Force etap Axs right shifter ?

    Reason is that due to the shortage in SRAM components, it may be easier to find separate left/right etap shifters.
    Or if you broke your Force right shifter, and can only find a Rival/Red replacement.

    Thanks !

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      19 October 2021

      SRAM’s (albeit generic) information is that anything AXS can communicate with each other seamlessly.

      Reply
    2. A

      Andy says:

      26 July 2022

      Loic

      I’m having the same problem finding shifters. Did you try mixing. I an find a force right and red left shifter and want to build the bike , thanks

      Reply
  8. R

    Rochus says:

    18 September 2021

    Great article, thanks for that.

    I have a question, though, that hasnt been covered. I’m torn between getting an AXS Eagle GX (RD, chain, 10-50 cassette) and an AXS XPLR (RD, flattop chain, 10-44 cassette). I know, that you cant shift the entire 10-50 cassette with the XPLR RD.
    I have an indoortrainer with a 10-50 Eagle cassette, which I use with my HT MTB and would also like to use it with my gravel bike.
    Is it possible to shift 2-4 cogs in the mid-cassette with an XPLR RD (+flattop chain) on an Eagle 10-50 cassette? Would this cause excessive wear of the components?
    Thank you in advance!

    Reply
  9. I

    Ido says:

    25 August 2021

    Can I install sram red axs disk brake caliper with an older sram red etap hrd lever?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      25 August 2021

      I don’t know, never tried. I would think SRAM has official compatibility guidelines for those sorts of old/new combinations.

      Reply
      1. A

        Albert says:

        10 February 2022

        Here is a nice official compatibility chart
        https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/compatibility-map/mtb-and-road-hydraulic-disc-brake-lever-and-caliper-compatibility.pdf

        Reply
  10. i

    ismo says:

    16 August 2021

    I have been thinking of upgrading my gravel bike gearing from mechanical SRAM 1 x 11 to either SRAM AXS XPLR or SRAM mullet with Eagle AXS RD. The problem is I currently use a Quarq DZero PM with 110 BCD 11sp chainrings and there seems to be no 12sp SRAM chain rings with 110 BCD, only with newer 107 BCD.

    Does anyone know if I could use my old 11sp Force 1 chain ring with Eagle 12 chain and Eagle AXS RD?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      18 August 2021

      These work for example (profile B): https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/110-bcd-cyclocross-chainrings

      Reply
  11. M

    MALOU says:

    13 August 2021

    Hello, Gerard my question is about if I can install GX EAGLE AXS DERAILLEUR to lower costs or should be with the high-end tu build the mulet on my gravel?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      18 August 2021

      All AXS components can work together so also GX.

      Reply
  12. K

    Kevin says:

    12 August 2021

    Just curious if I can run the new rival 1×12 power meter, cranks, and chainring with a 1×11 (10-42) sram rival cassette. Just looking to upgrade the front end. I have a 2020 kona libre with the gxp bottom bracket. I can’t seem to find the answer or I just don’t understand what I’ve read on other threads lol. Thanks

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      12 August 2021

      I just had a discussion with SRAM about something similar TODAY by chance. Actually it was more of a side note, but at any rate, you can run a 12-speed cassette with 11-speed shifters. You won’t get all 12 speeds as the shifter only has 11 steps, but it does work without a problem. So the steps are the same and I would therefore assume the reverse also works (again of course you will only get 11 steps since that’s all the cassette has, and you will have to set up the limits well to avoid shifting off the cassette).

      Reply
  13. R

    Rudolf says:

    06 July 2021

    Rotor 11-39 cassette & red axs wide rear derailleur & Sram Eagle chain….will this combo work??

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      06 July 2021

      Not really. I would suggest to size down everything by 10%, so a 10% smaller chainring and the SRAM 10-36T cassette. That gives you the same range and steps and it obviously will shift.

      Reply
      1. R

        Rudolf says:

        07 July 2021

        Thank you!

        Reply
  14. B

    Brewt says:

    24 June 2021

    Hey Gerard, Still searching for a cheaper option than rotors 11-39 cassette for the AXS Eagle Drop bar bike. I have DT Swiss wheels, so it crossed my mind that Shimano is making a 10-45 and I could just slap a Microspline hub on my wheelset and use this cassette. It wouldn’t be quite as tight as my dream cassette which would be a 10-42 12 speed, but this seems like a big step in the right direction. I know mechanical Eagle can work with the Shimano cassettes, so I assume AXS would. Has anyone tried this. I feel like if I use a Shimano chain with a Shimano cassette I might even benefit from the improved underload shifting of Hyperglide+.

    Reply
  15. R

    Robert Samuel says:

    15 June 2021

    Hi Gerard,

    I’m back. Finally biting the bullet and going 1x Mullet.(hoping to sell my current Force AXS front & rear derailleurs). Going Eagle wireless for the rear with an E*Thirteen 9-50 cassette. Looking at options (Wolf Tooth 36?) for the front. Happy that my shifters and brakes will can be salvaged. Question: What is the story with Boost or Non-Boost? I have absolutely no comprehension of that, chainline or narrow/side position? Can’t wait for the lemonade now that I’m losing the 2x lemons!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      16 June 2021

      Forget about Road Boost as a standard, it’s terrible. Now an Exploro Racemax Boost, that’s a beautiful thing! 🙂

      Reply
  16. M

    Mark S Sclafani says:

    12 June 2021

    Having never used a SRAM AXS groupset, is there a loss in shifting performance using a long cage MTB derailleur vs short/medium cage road derailleur? This seems like an awesome hack but then I wonder why they limited the range of the Force/Red (and now Rival) derailleurs in the first place then. Some trade off?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      13 June 2021

      In extreme cases there are differences in performance, but you have to keep in mind SRAM has to guarantee what setups will work on ANY frame. I only have to check how it works on OUR frames. So they have to be a lot more conservative in their recommendations.

      Reply
  17. M

    Michael Amato says:

    09 June 2021

    For gravel and light single track the low gear is much more important, so going to 11-46 means you must reduce the chainring. I use my 42/50 all the time. What I really want for my next road bike is a 2x mullet. Can you elaborate on how to build that?

    Reply
  18. J

    Juan Duarte says:

    01 June 2021

    will an eagle chain work with a force Rear derailleur?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      01 June 2021

      That depends on the whole setup, but more than likely the setup you have in mind we haven’t tried. so trial and error is the only way to find out.

      Reply
  19. m

    mike d says:

    28 May 2021

    I swapped out a Force AXS Read D and cassette to do a mullet build. I now have the extra Force eTap RD and 10×33 Cassette. I was wondering if I could pair those to a Sram MTB XX1 / X01 / GRX controller and mount it to road bars? Seems like a cheap(er) way to upgrade an existing mechanical road bike that I have to eTap.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      02 June 2021

      AXS is actually the name of the communications protocol, so all AXS parts can talk to each other (MTB shifter to road derailleur, etc).

      Reply
  20. T

    Thomas says:

    17 April 2021

    Gerard/ Community …

    I have a burning question that I seem to find no answer to. Maybe you. guys have an idea here.

    Is there a XDR Driver body to upgrade a SRAM ROAM 40 wheel with an XD hub? I can find such bodies for DT Swiss, Zipp, and many more … but nothing for SRAM wheels?

    Thanks for your time.
    Thomas

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      17 April 2021

      I have no idea, sorry

      Reply
      1. T

        Thomas says:

        22 April 2021

        Thanks. I did ask SRAM now and they say that there is no such thing, as the wheels got discontinued before XDR was released. So i guess: lack of interest 🙂

        Reply
      2. B

        Bret Miedema says:

        01 June 2021

        Hello Gerald, I stumbled upon your blog and have read through all the comments. I have a 2019 Spec Diverge and am
        Already running 1×11. I ideally want to go to AXS. I believe this setup should work.

        Sram Rival AXS shifters
        GX Eagle AXS derailleur
        11-39 cassette (as of right now only know of rotor making anything comparable that is HG freehub and 12 speed cassette
        KMC 12 speed chain

        I plan on keeping my existing crankset and chainring which is a Praxis Zayante Carbon with a Sram style direct mount chainring wolftooth narrow wide 42t chainring.

        Should that setup work?

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          01 June 2021

          I don’t know, not sure if the chainring is 12-speed compatible and Eagle is not too crazy about a biggest cog of only 39T. So as often with these sort of things, it’s not black and white if it works or not, it’s whether you feel it works well enough for what your expectations are. I wouldn’t ride a setup like that, to me the shifting performance is not at the level I would want. But it does “work” in the sense that you can get the chain on all the cogs when you push the levers.

          Reply
          1. B

            Bret Miedema says:

            01 June 2021

            Are you aware of any other HG 12 speed cassettes between 40t and 46t? I know I could always throw a NX Eagle cassette on the bike, but really don’t even need that range on a mtb let alone a gravel bike.

            I won’t be doing this upgrade till the winter most likey…fingers crossed some more 12 speed cassettes come out. I’m getting GX Eagle AXS on my MTB as soon as I find a good deal on one so first so I can at least test the derailluer with a cassette for free without having to buy a potentially useless derailluer.

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              01 June 2021

              I’m not aware of any publicly announced cassettes in the range you’re looking for.

              Reply
    2. T

      Tom says:

      15 May 2021

      Hello Thomas,
      I believe the hubs are dt swiss internally.
      I once changed end caps on a sram roam wheelset and used the dt swiss caps. Probably the cassette body is also compatible with earlier dt swiss ones.

      Reply
  21. m

    mike d says:

    07 April 2021

    I have a Lynskey GR Race that came with Force AXS 1×42 10-33 cassette. After a few gravel rides near my home in Southern Utah, I realized the 42×33 was not going to cut it for a low gear. I used a 36 Front for a while but the range was still not cutting it. I also ride a lot of tarmac with the same bike, I was trying to decide on just going 10×36 in the rear (newly available) and hoping the 33T rated Force AXS rear d would work (some reports say it will), or just going full mullet and suffer the gear gaps on the road. I decided to take the leap (monitarily) and got an X01 AXS rear d (> $200 cheaper than XX1) and an XX1 oil slick 10×50 cassette and matching chain. Yup. Paid extra for the bling (it is a ti bike after all). It works amazing well on the road and in the dirt. The shifting is flawless. The jumps are bigger, but, hey, I used to train on a fixed gear, so you have to increase your comfortable RPM range a little… get over it! 😉 I’m very happy with the result and love rocking the mullet!

    Reply
    1. r

      radomil kalinowski says:

      26 July 2021

      Hey nice setup. Did you leave the 42 on the front then with the 10-50 cassette ?

      Reply
  22. R

    Reinhard Plietsch says:

    09 March 2021

    Hello, I tried the Eagle XX1 12spd cassette (XG-1299) on my Opecycle U.P.P.E.R. together with a Force 1 AXS DUB crank (107BCD), and unfortunately the 45mm chain line seems awfully wrong: Chain jumps upon back pedaling on smallest 3 dogs / catches on next larger dog, respectively. Normal pedaling gives me chain rattle on 2 smallest dogs when putting some power down (200Watts is enough to make the chain line noisy), too. Holding the chain just a little to the right side makes all cogs silent, I think Inwood need something like 48mm of chain line. How can I adjust, 2mm spacer+0?5mm washer already installed on the right side of the pedal axis, no more space left on the left side except <0.5mm for the adjuster when completely open. Any hints?

    Reply
    1. R

      Reinhard Plietsch says:

      16 March 2021

      HAve swapped the 45mm for a 48mm chain line – running smooth like butter now! 🙂

      Reply
      1. E

        Eduard says:

        25 March 2021

        Hi Reinhard,

        I am having the same issue with the exact components you are using. How did you increase the chain line?

        Reply
        1. G

          G. Andaluz says:

          25 May 2021

          You should be able to find chainrings with different offset for the cleanest solution.

          Reply
  23. T

    Tim Lagas says:

    07 March 2021

    Very interesting piece to read. It clearifies a lot. I do still have one question though. Is it possible to use a AXS XXO1/XX1 derailleur with a 11 speed cassette? Because those are much cheaper than the 12 speed cassettes and I can live with a 10-42 11 speed cassette and 38t chainring.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      07 March 2021

      Hi Tim, no, the spacing between the cogs is different for 11-sp and 12-sp so the steps of the rear derailleur would not match the steps on the cassette.

      Reply
  24. H

    Huib says:

    27 February 2021

    Hi Gerard,

    Thanks for this informative post.

    I have a question with respect to using the rotor 11-39 cassette in combination with an Eagle rear derailleur as I would like to use that one for road riding. On some other forums I read that the gap between the upper pulley wheel and the cassette will be to large to allow for proper shifting. So my question is whether the B screw has enough range to get the chain gap correct when using the 11-39 rotor cassette?

    I have one other question with respect to the flat top chain as I really like the look of it on a bike. Is there no other difference between the flat top and Eagle chain (i heard something about a different roller diameter)? I mean if you only can’t use the flat top chain with Eagle rear derailleur and cassette because of the upper pulley wheel, why not just swap that one for a road axs one?

    Thanks for sharing your insight!

    Huib.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      27 February 2021

      With regards to Eagle and the 11-39T cassette, there are two different questions. Yes, it will work out in the field no problem, but that’s not the same as if it will be set up in the theoretically ideal B-gap. With most hacks, the setup goes outside the established boundaries (otherwise it isn’t really a hack, then it’s just how the parts were intended to work). Sometimes that works well, sometimes it doesn’t. So these posts give you some insight into how you can go beyond the boundaries and still have a very well-functioning setup.

      Flattop won’t work with that pulley, that’s correct, but that’s not all. We have seen poor performance mixing Eagle & Flattop chains and cassettes, so the tooth shapes are also different on the cassettes.

      Reply
  25. S

    Steve T says:

    23 January 2021

    Hi Gerard,
    Been on the Strada and loving every minute of it.
    Have you heard of Ratio Technology’s 1`2 speed upgrade for Sram Double Tap shifters? It will shift exact actuation derailleurs (road ratio) on Eagle 12 speed cassettes. (they also have a blade that converts x-actuation to exact actuation) So my question is do you know if the road AXS cassettes have the same cog spacing as Eagle? I want to run the 10-33 with the 12 speed modded levers shifting a Sram Red Wifli derailleur which will bring the weight way down. Thanks for sharing your super deep knowledge!
    Steve

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      09 February 2021

      Hear of it but haven’t tried it. The road and mountain bike cassettes do have the same spacing.

      Reply
  26. D

    David CJ says:

    19 November 2020

    Hi Gerard,

    Great article and really informative answers to people’s questions too – thanks!

    I’ve got Force AXS 1×12 on my gravel bike but it’s the v1 which only goes to 33T cassette. I recently found a part from Garbaruk which is essentially an OSPW but with an extender link to allow the rear mech to go to 50T. I’ve installed this along with the Garbaruk 10-48t cassette and Eagle axs chain. This has been tweaked by a bike mechanic too and was setup to work ok. The issue I now have is the noise this thing makes! I’ve tried indexing on numerous occasions but the noise is really annoying. I wonder if this is just to do with the setup or maybe it’s just the compatibility because I’ve take the hack a step too far?! Have you tried any setups like this and if so, do you have any tips?

    Thanks in advance!

    Reply
  27. P

    Pete V says:

    13 November 2020

    Hello Gerard, firstly thank you for the article. I am keen in upgrading to AXS/Eagle combo on my Exploro. I have been asked if my brakes are Flat mount with 20mm offset, Flat mount direct with no bracket, or Flat mount with no offset. I could not find any information on line to clarify this. I am using Force 1 currently. I have also been asked for hose length. I am on a 51cm frame. Is there a set length for the brake hoses?

    Reply
  28. O

    Oliver Draht says:

    01 November 2020

    I can confirm only one controller works – levers OR blipbox. It would have been nice to use blipbox in addition, say for easy on/off of aero bars. But it’s either or and I had to resolder the clics to make the cable long enough to reach the shifters.

    Reply
  29. Z

    Zane W Mitchell says:

    27 October 2020

    Hi Gerard, thank you. Looking at the AXS phone app, I thought I might be able to reassign the blip to any function (any type of shifting or running a dropper post)…the Force AXS levers have one blip hookup on each side…so I wouldn’t be using a blipbox. I wanted to just use the right AXS shifter and keep using my 1X Force 11 left brake lever/caliper and not spend the money to replace that one.

    Reply
  30. Z

    Zane Mitchell says:

    27 October 2020

    Can I run Force AXS as 1X with only the right shift/brake lever and a blip? I want to use the paddle on the lever to shift to larger cog and the blip to shift to smaller cog…would mount the blip on the lever assembly in a similar position to where a Campy lever that does the same thing would be.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      27 October 2020

      Well, where would you plug the blip into? If you plug it into the right lever, it acts like a right lever, not a left. So you would need a blipbox to plug it into. But according to SRAM, only one controller type can be paired into an AXS® system. So you cannot pair the system with one shift/brake lever and one blipbox. Bottomline, I think the answer is no, at least not officially.

      Reply
      1. O

        Oliver Draht says:

        01 November 2020

        I can confirm only one controller works – levers OR blipbox. It would have been nice to use blipbox in addition, say for easy on/off of aero bars. But it’s either or and I had to resolder the clics to make the cable long enough to reach the shifters.

        Reply
    2. Z

      Zane Mitchell says:

      02 November 2020

      An update on this, I have all my parts now (except for the cassette.) Using just the right Force AXS lever with a blip (the Multiclic version) plugged in to the blip outlet on the lever, I can control the X01 Eagle rear derailleur in both the upshift and downshift direction (including holding down buttons for multishift in both directions.) The AXS phone app let me program it this way. After playing with things a bit, I’m probably going to mount the blip underneath the hood with the Multiclic button facing outboard vs. trying to mount it on the inboard side of the hood Campy style like I was originally thinking. Feels like I’ll be able to set it so I can do both upshifts and downshifts with the same finger. I’m going to hold off on purchasing the left AXS lever. It would be nice to have both AXS levers, but my Force 1 left lever/caliper will do for now…hood shape is slightly different than Force AXS, but I can deal with it for now.

      Reply
  31. R

    Ric says:

    21 October 2020

    Is there any tangible difference between the 11-speed SRAM Force Brake Caliper and the 12-speed Force AXS Caliper. I know the new AXS shifter has a contact point adjustment, but the calipers look the same, minus some rebranding. I am asking because I hate the braking experience on the 11-speed groupset. You are always fiddling with the brakes to get solid performance. Thanks!

    Reply
    1. O

      Oliver Draht says:

      01 November 2020

      @Ric, in my experience the braking of 11x and 12x (both force) is very similar. I didn’t experience any braking issues with the 11x either though, both very grippy and solid performers.

      Reply
  32. S

    SimonTi says:

    20 October 2020

    for whoever is trying to set up a Mullet drive train with XX1/X01 components and eThirteen 12sp 9-46t cassette..well, dont! The e13 is really a badly designed and flawed cassette. Apart from the convoluted installation, removal, shifting was ok although very very noisy at higher gear.
    But the real problem is chain falling while back pedaling. You might say you should never back pedal and that is correct but we all been in situations where approaching a very steep obstacle we had to position our pedal stroke correctly. With the e13 casette chain falling and getting your expensive RD stuck is guaranteed.
    I also mailed the e13 customer service which basically replied with we know its an issue, live with it!
    I then swapped for a XO1 XG-1295 10-50t and it was flawless. Silent, precise shifting and ZERO issue when backpedaling.
    I am really disappointed at the e13 cassette. This is not a refined products, most likely not thoroughly tested in real riding conditions. Fortunately SRAM cassette was the solution, although i dont really need the large 50t cog…

    Reply
  33. O

    Olli says:

    18 October 2020

    @Gerard I decided to install a Sram Road Axs 2x (46/33 – 10-33) using the Sram Froce Road crank on my Exploro. As bottom bracket I used a Wheels Mfg BB386evo to DUB. Sram tech docs tell me to use 2mm spacers on the drive side.
    Here’s the issue though:
    With the bottom bracket installed and including the dust cuvers the BB is approx 86mm (as stated in Wheels spec including the dust covers). The spindle of the crankset however has almost 92mm of length leading with the preload adapter almost fully off the thread towards bracket, fully assembled and torqued to chainrings (incl powermeter spindle).
    So there’s something wrong, and I need to get rid of 4mm of play after adjustment and having the spacer installed. Any advice on need for spacer setup, guidance where I might have derailed or experience with this combination is highly appreciated.
    Thanks
    Olli

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      18 October 2020

      I don’t really know about that combination, but the SRAM recommendation is probably based on their own BB. Can’t tell if you’ve forgotten some crucial bit, but if not then it’s a matter of adding spacers to center the crank.

      Reply
      1. O

        Olli says:

        19 October 2020

        Hi Gerard, thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate you checking for your input and even checking for new messages in your “older” posts.
        After having gone through the documentation again, I am fairly certain I did not make a significant mistake assembling it all. Even for a hobbyist this is possible, if you take your time (took me a while, but getting the head wrapped around new things was a welcome challenge).
        I have already ordered some spacers, which should arrive these days. If push comes to shove I can replace the BB with a SRAM stock one.
        If you don´´t mind I´ll post an update on progress for the next despaired hobbyist 😉

        Reply
        1. O

          Olli says:

          24 October 2020

          Here we go. In contrast to the SRAM 386Evo-Dub bottom bracket the ends of the Wheels Mfg BB don’t sit flush with the frame, but are slightly recessed. The recess and the additional 2mm required as per SRAM manual had to be spacered. I ended up with 2.5mm on the drive side (measuring the with of the Wheels cups was not too accurate) and another 2-3mm on the non-drive side that allowed me to adjust the rest with the pre-adjuster. More or less spacers on drive side led to issues with shifting performance for me. .

          Reply
          1. Gerard Vroomen says:

            25 October 2020

            Hi Olli, thanks for the update!

            Reply
            1. K

              Kjell Rege says:

              28 October 2020

              @Olli @ Gerard – Washer on non-drive side and fiddle with different spacer dimensions on the drive side. Juggling spacers left and right usually manifest a nice and tight crank. Tight in this sense does not mean smooth.

              Personally I’d auction the 2x and go for a hike down Buddhah’s path; 1x in whatever combo works for you and your area. If the range is an issue, you’d be surprised how much you can mess around with hangers, but that’s a different topic 😉

              Reply
              1. O

                Oliver Draht says:

                01 November 2020

                @Kjell thanks for your input. When juggling with the spacers I made sure there is still room for pre-load adjustment. I also tried spacers on/off to get a feel how smooth the crank feels w/o spacers and how tight to adjust the pre-load adjuster, since I did not have experience with it. So far there seems to be be no difference. Long term experience will tell. Worst case I fu the bearings and have to replace them or go with the SRAM pressfit.
                Can’t say I want to go back the 1x route just yet. The steps between gears are so much better than 1×11. With 1×11 steps between gears forced me to either significantly change cadence 10-15rpm or Watt, feels so much better and organic with 2×12.

                Reply
  34. A

    Axel Engstfeld says:

    03 October 2020

    MTB-Road cassette different spacing?
    I run Easton cranks with red 22 tap. the max coq in this set but is 32 teeth. In order to get my almost 70 years up the steeper hills I use different chainrings 47/32 and 46/30. But the difference between both rings are fairly big especially with the 46/30.
    Now i wonder to change to Rotor 11-36 or 11-39 in the rear. The question I have is concerning the hub. For MTB caste type I would need a spacer 1,8mm for Road cassette not. That should mean that the single coqs should be 0,16mm closer to each other compared to the road cassette. Now if i use the axs eagle rear derailleur would it shift a “smaller-MTB-space” compared to a road derailleur like the Force AXS . And would that effect the shifting quality?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      05 October 2020

      Red 22 is 11-speed, the Rotor cassettes you mention are 12-speed. the 1.8mm spacer is if you have an xD-R free hub and an xD cassette. For any other combination (xD cassette on xD hub, xD-R cassette on xD-R hub) you don’t need anything. This is unrelated to the cog spacing, as the cassette hangs over the freehub body and the spacers anyway.

      Reply
      1. K

        Kjell Rege says:

        28 October 2020

        @Gerard – 11sp and 12sp can be done in any combination (leaving aside flat top chains) be it cassette, derailleur or crank. If you know how to use limit screws, fine teeth files and pedal spacers (secret sauce) you’re good to roll.

        Example:
        Mid cage etap (non AXS) derailleur
        KMC 12sp chain (DLC vm recommended)
        AB 50t oval 1x ring
        3T baillout (9(!)-33t) cassette
        DT Swiss 240s hub
        Etap (AXS or not..) blip box. If you’ve the luxury of having different sets or derailleurs, cassettes and so forth, You’re basically able to do anything.

        All mounted on a 3T Exploro frame.

        The AXS system is great, but the tag attached to it and the closed system is off-putting. At any rate, anything is possible. Thus big kudo’s to @Gerard and @3T for providing these hacks.

        Reply
  35. P

    Pichai Pitsuwan says:

    01 October 2020

    Hi, I’m using sram red axs 50T chainring, 10-33 cassette on my triathlon bike. I just bough 60T chainring from D2Z then realized that sram red flattop chain 114 link may to short for new set up. I think Sram said that red/force axs RD only compatible with flattop chain but D2Z use sram XX1 chain in their promote picture. Do you have any suggestion?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      05 October 2020

      No idea, better ask D2Z.

      Reply
  36. M

    Mark says:

    24 September 2020

    I need help. I spend a lot of time on the road with my mountain bike and thus would like a naarrower range. I currently run a 34 front with a 10-50 Sram eagle cassette in the rear on a bike that is configured on 148 boost standards. Is there a 10-34/36/38 that fits my rear hub standard that I could mount? I value the 10 tooth in front because my front rings are fixed despite my desire to run a dual purpose bike

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      24 September 2020

      No there isn’t any cassette like that that works with Eagle.

      Reply
  37. D

    Daan Run says:

    19 September 2020

    Thank you for this write up, very helpful!

    Based on this, I am thinking about a 1x setup with Eagle AXS (42t chainring) with two wheel-sets. One for a true gravel tire 40c with a 10-50 SRAM cassette and the other with a 30c tire and a Rotor 11-39 cassette. (11-36 would be even better, but it looks like that won’t work).

    Do you think I would need to adjust the B-gap screw and/or L/R electric adjustment every time I swap wheel-set?

    Thanks in advance!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      19 September 2020

      For me, yes, but some people disagree.

      Reply
    2. Pierre says:

      17 February 2021

      Hello, I am exactly in the same situation (Eagle 10-50) with the same intention (Rotor 11-39). Have you installed the 11-39 cassette as a second wheel set? Did it run well? Did you have to make adjustments every time you swapped wheels? Curious to have your feedback.
      Thank you!

      Reply
  38. C

    Clarence Holmstrom says:

    02 September 2020

    Hi,
    Thanks for taking the time to keep this up. Great Resource!!
    I’ve built a custom Ti gravel frame and the rear is boost spaced for various reasons and as an experiemet. How well would SRAM Force wide range der. and 10-36 cog work with the 52 (maybe 51)mm chainline from the boost cranks in your opinion? I know you don’t recommend the limited 36t but i live in Finland where its pretty flat. I plan to run a 38 or 40t ring.
    Thanks for any input!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      02 September 2020

      If the rear hub is boost and the crank is boost, then the chainline will be fine. But you would need an xD-R free hub body on the rear, not an xD, to take the 10-36T cassette. And not sure what your BB is and if you can get a proper Boost chainline in the front.

      Reply
      1. C

        C Holmstrom says:

        29 December 2020

        I’ve built it up with a King BB. So far so good. Next problem is the Eagle chainring … will the Force r.der and 10-36 play nice with an Eagle chain? I doubt there are any X01 direct mount rings that work with a flat top chain, or are there?

        Reply
  39. D

    Daniel says:

    09 August 2020

    Hello,
    I wonder whether I can build a force / xx1 setup to use on road + gravel in following way:
    Force shifters + front dr + 35/48 crank
    XX1 rr dr + eagle chain
    2 pair of wheels – one for road with 10-33 force cassette and one for gravel with 10-50 eagle cassette
    I understand that gravel one will work, but will it work with 10-33 on road?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      12 August 2020

      Won’t work. The XX1 rear derailleur doesn’t work with the 10-33, and it can also not take up the slack of the two rings on the crankset.

      Reply
  40. M

    Mark says:

    01 August 2020

    SRAM eagle axs rear mech with 10-50 cassette, the chain keeps coming of front ring not sure why? Any advice would be great.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      12 August 2020

      I don’t know either except that that shouldn’t be happening. Best to take it to a proper mechanic to have a look at, hard to solve that without having the bike in your hands.

      Reply
  41. D

    Davide says:

    16 July 2020

    Hi Gerard – great insights.
    Looking to build a 1X hack with 11-36 Rotor cassette.
    What do you think of the following:
    11-36 rotor 12 speed cassette
    Medium cage AXS Force derailleur
    Red AXS levers
    KMC chain
    12 speed-compatible Wolftooth chainring
    Will this combo work? Would replacing the top (or both) pulleys with Eagle or eagle-compatible Kogel versions make it even better?
    Live in relatively flat area so I don’t need/want a broader range.
    Thanks!!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      22 July 2020

      I’m not sure yet.

      Reply
  42. I

    Ivan Sholokhov says:

    22 June 2020

    Gerard, is it real in RED AXS just change pulleys from EAGLE ?
    + made longer custom derailleur hanger (like wolftooth)
    Thanks for Your labor

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      22 June 2020

      Hi Ivan, I don’t think that will get you the same results. Of course there are some tools to get a road rear derailleur to shift a bigger cassette, but you won’t get all the way to what an Eagle derailleur can do.

      Reply
  43. R

    Richard says:

    15 June 2020

    Hi not gravel specific but I have the strada pro 11 speed with sram quarq. Is it possible to get electronic shifting with replacing the deralieur, cassette, chain and shifters? Do I also need to replace the crank? Thanks

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      15 June 2020

      If you go with the FORCE rear derailleur, you need the flattop chain and also a true 12-speed road front chainring. If you go with an EAGLE rear derailleur, you can keep your current chainring. But of course you can only use bigger cassettes, including some ROTOR mid-range cassettes. for more info, see here: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/01/12405/gravel-bike-tech-gears-for-tough-climbs-part-1/

      Reply
  44. E

    Espen Danielsen says:

    13 June 2020

    I’m buing a e-MTB for all round use. I have the choice between a XT 10×2 (11-36 x 32/44) setup on a bike with a 68 degree head tube angle and a NX 12×1 (11-50 x38) setup on a bike with 66 degree head tube angle.

    I like the 66 degree head tube for downhill riding, but feel the 68 degree angle is more nimble on difficult trails. So I have a hard time deciding. I feel the XT 10×2 gearsystem is better suited for high speed gravel roads but it has difficulty in very rough terrain… At the same time the NX 12×1 is very good in rough terrain and downhil, but I feel it lacks a bit in the top range, and I never use the lightest gear. If I could put a 44T crank on this it would be equal to the XT |0x2 system in gear range, while still being better in rought terrain.

    TLTR:
    Is it possible to use a 44T Crank with a 12×1 11-50 Eagle setup? I have not found any 44T that is compatible with the Eagle system, and the manual warns to only use Eagle compatible Cranks… Is this bull, or is there any 44T gears that is compatible? I need it to have a 4 bolt 104mm mounting to fit the Yamaha motor spider…

    I would also like some input on the headtube angles. Is 68 degrees really enough for light downhill, or would I be better off with 66 degree on a all round capable bike?

    -ED-

    Reply
  45. C

    Christian Borrman says:

    05 June 2020

    Does anybody know a good place to buy a mullet upgrade kit? I cannot easily find just the rear eagle AXS mech or red / force AXS shifters? There is a german site with a full groupset I suppose, but it means selling 70% of it on ebay!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      05 June 2020

      If you’re upgrading a standard AXS build to Mullet, then all you need is the rear derailleur. The rest of the AXS parts stay the same. When I google that for the Netherlands or Germany, I see them pop up at various stores (futurumshop, bike-components, etc). Of course you also need a new cassette and chain, but those are not bundled anyway so that shouldn’t be a problem either.

      Reply
  46. L

    Lauren says:

    04 June 2020

    Enjoyed your article thank you!
    I am building a Trek Crockett for all around but generally more cross country setup for midwest or Chicago area riding.

    What do you think of the following:
    Shifters/calipers: Sram Force 1 HRD
    Rear mech: Sram Force CX1 long cage
    Cranks: Sram Force 2020 DUB
    Chainring: Garbaruk 40T oval direct mount
    Cassette: Shimano XTR
    For chain – not sure – whatever works with the rear derailleur I assume.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      04 June 2020

      Well, XTR is 12-speed and the rest is 11-speed so that seems to be a problem. I don’t really have experience with Garbaruk. Chain has to work with RD and chainring and cassette, but if everything is 11-speed then that shouldn’t be a problem.

      Reply
  47. J

    Jon Austen says:

    29 May 2020

    Hi Gerard. this is very interesting for me as I have a Sram eTap AXS groupset on my gravel bike which has a 42 tooth chainwheel and the Sram 10-50 cassette which is great for the more hilly rides I do. but I’ve bought a second set of wheels and want to fit a smaller cassette – the Rotor 11-39 would seem to be ideal to me. however I thought that the Eagle derailleur would only work with Sram cassettes but you say above it works fine with the Rotor cassette – can you just confirm that please. Also do you know what freehub the rotor cassette needs? Is it the Sram XD driver or something else? Many thanks, Jon

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      31 May 2020

      More info on that here: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/01/12405/gravel-bike-tech-gears-for-tough-climbs-part-1/

      Reply
  48. R

    Richard Park says:

    17 May 2020

    Will etap run with oval chain rings OK?
    I had heard that it can “freak out” as the chain is up and down and tugs on the derailleur? Is it a myth?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      17 May 2020

      Haven’t heard that. You would need a proper 12-speed road ring for that though.

      Reply
  49. T

    TycX says:

    17 May 2020

    Hi Gerard,

    First of all thank you for your help with my previous question, i posted the setup on that thread and another question but i think it is too far up.

    You have mentioned before that 47mm would be you preferred chainline for the eagle.
    By pure math i assume that means 50mm would be the ideal chainline for the eagle on boost hub. hence 49mm that i currently have via Wolftooth CAMO should do the trick with boost hub. i got very confused by https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/boost-chainline-and-chainrings saying “If you are running 12 speed … you MUST run a boost spaced chainring with a boost spaced bike”.

    my current chainline of 49mm on non boost hub gives me the backpedaling chain falling from biggest into smaller cog issue. i wanted to build a new wheel anyway and was hoping shifting the cassette 3mm to the right would solve that. on the other end according to Wolftooth’s article i would then have to get the 52mm camo spider (luckily relatively cheap, but then i actually negate the +3mm…)

    What is your experience with the optimal chainline?

    thanks again!

    Reply
    1. T

      TycX says:

      19 May 2020

      Just to update, after testing, indeed there is slight problem with non boost offset on chainring together with boost hub.
      Although the setup feels more correct this way (e.g no chain falling when backpedaling), on the smallest cog the chain can touch the next cog because of the angle. In my case I could adjust the derailleur a bit to make it subtle, but as Wolftooth explains, boost chainring on boost hub seems like the right way to go.

      Reply
    2. J

      Joe says:

      24 May 2020

      I‘m having some issues with a chainline of 47mm and an Eagle/Force AXS, Eagle 10-50t cassette combination, the chain touches the next bigger sprocket in the 2nd to 5th smallest sprocket (everything non boost, 40t cassette, 430mm chainstay length).
      Now I‘m waiting on some BB30 spacers to space out the driveside crank. I will try to make the chainline 49.5mm with an additional 2.5mm spindle spacer. If that doesn‘t help something funky is going on with the frame.
      Should the Mullet drive work with a chainline of 47mm? (Sram says Eagle chainline should be 49mm, 52 for boost as far as i know)

      Something different I have thought of: the rear hub has an XDR driver (DT Swiss Spline 350). The Eagle cassette was installed with a 1.8mm spacer. If there‘s enough space on the hub (have to check), would it be possible to omit the spacer? I guess the cassette would touch the spokes but maybe this could work in some circumstances?

      Reply
      1. J

        Joe says:

        26 May 2020

        Just to follow up, according to Gerard a chainline of anywhere 45-50 should work. 47 is the goal to aim for (lines up with about the middle of the cassette), whereby it can be tuned according to the most often used gears.

        I guess I’m not used to the noise a 1x drivetrain is making, especially with the almost hollow sounding XX1 cassette and small tolerances of 12-speed. The chain gets picked up by the sprocket tooths of the next bigger sprocket and immediately falls down again when I backpedal in the 2nd-4th smallest sprocket making and audible click which is a bit weird but I’ll see how it goes with a bit of wear, if this gets better.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          28 May 2020

          This could have something to do with a combination of pawl ratchet resistance and cassette weight. The bigger the cassette, the bigger the momentum when it is rotating, so reversing the direction means the cassette needs some time to also reverse. Especially if the pawls engage strongly (nothing wrong with that in general of course), that can be an issue. As a result, the chain can be a bit slack for a short moment, meaning it can swing more freely than normal and if it swings a bit sideways, it could pick up a tooth. I haven’t seen that happen very often, but maybe that’s what’s happening.

          Reply
  50. M

    Martin Knudsen says:

    14 May 2020

    Hi Gerard.

    Is it correct that the Rotor 11-39 or 11-46 only is compatibel with an shimano freehub (11 speed) I was sure it went with an HD(R) hub ?
    Maybe I´m totally wrong, but can´t find the details ?

    Best Martin

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      14 May 2020

      It goes with a standard free hub, not an xD(R). They don’t have the license to use xD(R). That’s why they start with 11T, 10T wouldn’t fit. Their 13-speed cassettes do start with a 10T (it’s basically the 12-speed cassette with a 10T cog added) but they use their own complete hub design for that.

      Reply
  51. M

    Michiel Janssen says:

    10 May 2020

    Gerard,
    If only I had read this earlier, but “Beter ten halve gekeerd dan ten hele gedwaald” as you know!
    So after finding out the Eagle 10-50 is a ridiculous range (even in the Dutch Mountains) and the 10-33 is OK for flatter Gravel Rides, but not enough in the hills, I started to look for alternatives. So thanks to your article I have ordered the “change set” of Rotor which of course was quite an investment, but if you can afford a bike designed by Vroomen Design (OPEN UP), you should not complain! 😉 😉

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      14 May 2020

      There is now another option too. See here: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/05/14264/gravel-bike-tech-new-force-axs-etap-for-gravel/ and here: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/05/14290/sram-force-axs-wide-gearing-hacks-gravel-bike-tech/

      Reply
  52. U

    Ulli Seibel says:

    07 May 2020

    Gérard, thanks for this amazing article. One question: the 11-39 cassette from Rotor is not compatible with the red/force AXS derailleur. But can you combine the 11-36 cassette from Rotor with the the red/force AXS derailleur? Would this be an option for a 2x 12 drive train which is more gravel-oriented? Max cog would be 36 (vs. 33) and capacity of the cassette is 25 (vs. 23). If this would be within the tolerance of the red/force AXS derailleur, smallest gear would be 33/36 instead 33/33 on a 2×12 ETAP AXS drive train. Can make the difference uphill…

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      07 May 2020

      Hi Ulli, the 11-36 will not work on the regular Force AXS rear derailleur. 33T is a pretty hard stop for that one.

      Reply
      1. U

        Ulli Seibel says:

        08 May 2020

        Damn. I hoped that starting from 11 cogs would make this working as you could adapt the B-screw.

        Reply
  53. K

    Keith says:

    06 May 2020

    Gerard – Any thoughts on the Garbaruk cage for Force AXS rear derailleurs?

    https://garbaruk.com/sram-12-speed-axs-rd-cage.html?category=15

    Does this look like a viable alternative to purchasing an XX1 rear derailleur for those of us that have a Force AXS build and want to run a wider range cassette?

    Was planning on running a 42t Sram ring with an 11-46 Rotor cassette (and KMC chain). (I know I need to change the freehub on my XDR wheels to fit the Rotor cassette.)

    Thanks!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      06 May 2020

      Hi Keith, I have no experience with these products, sorry.

      Reply
      1. K

        Keith says:

        07 May 2020

        Thanks Gerard. I ended up snagging one, I’ll report back here!

        Reply
    2. C

      Clifak says:

      09 May 2020

      Mine arrived and I’ve been running it for the past week over the Eagle AXS derailleur with the Rotor 11-39t. I posted my experience to your reply of one of my earlier posts. Overall, it works very well. Shifting is very clean and seems to work better with my current setup than the Eagle derailleur. The only downside is some noise on the road(gravel is fine) in the extreme ends of the cassette. The Force derailleur uses the Orbit system which isn’t a full clutch like on Eagle. That, combined with the Garbaruk cage being aluminium, are probably the reason for the noise.

      Also, you need a special tool to remove the cage. Garbaruk said they just used a flat screwdriver but there is a specific tool for removing the bolt that fastens the cage. Ceramicspeed includes the tool in their AXS pulley/cage kits so you might be able to convince a pro shop to lend or sell you one. I see below that you ordered one too so I’m looking forward to hearing about your experience with it.

      Reply
      1. K

        Keith says:

        09 May 2020

        Thanks that is super helpful! Glad it’s working for you, will post here once I get it all set up.

        Reply
      2. K

        Keith says:

        09 May 2020

        Is this the tool you are referring to?

        https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/shop/spare-parts/tool-for-ospw-for-sram-axs/

        Reply
        1. C

          Clifak says:

          12 May 2020

          Yes. I didn’t realize they sold it by itself and for a decent price.

          Reply
  54. L

    Lukas Eisele says:

    05 May 2020

    You also have some experience about mixing the Eagle rear derailleur with a Shimano cassette such as SLX or Deore XT? As they are much cheaper than Rotor’s 11-46 and provide almost the same ratio with 10-45 that would be a pretty nice option.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      05 May 2020

      We haven’t tested that. Just to be clear though, 10-45 is almost the same range as 11-50, and the SRAM 11-50 comes in less expensive versions too.

      Reply
  55. M

    Martin says:

    29 April 2020

    My question is about which Force AXS group to buy … 1x or 2x. Can a 2x groupset be used in “1x mode” – if the front derailleur is not installed?
    I find deals on full 2x groupsets which make it nearly the same price as 1x groupsets.
    Long-Term: My target drivetrain is Force AXS 1x with the Garbaruk cassette (10-42??) and their matched rear derailleur cage upgrade.
    Short-Term: My idea is to install the 2x groupset in “1x mode”: no front derailleur, 10-33 cassette, 42t ring. The sacrifice is top-end gearing.
    Backup: The Garbaruk items are a bit of an unknown. I may not get on with 12 gears due to lots of climbing/descending. It seems to makes sense to buy the 2x groupset but only if it can be used in 2x and 1x mode.
    Thanks!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      30 April 2020

      SRAM AXS road bike parts for 1x and 2x are all the same. That also applies to the shifters (you need both left and right shifters with AXS even with 1x as one shifter is used to shift the rear derailleur up and the other to shift the rear down). And those levers then also work if you switch to 2x (where pressing both levers at the same time shifts the front derailleur).

      Reply
      1. S

        Sam says:

        15 May 2020

        Gerard, I’m also have the same question as Martin above. I’m wondering if there are any issues removing the small chainring and front derailleur from the Force AXS crankset and running as is? I know the 1X chainrings are narrow wide setup to reduce chance of losing the chain so would a 2X chainring still work with only the larger ring?

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          15 May 2020

          You can do that but the narrow-wide does retain the chain much better so you’re likely to regularly lose your chain without.

          Reply
      2. N

        Nate says:

        17 December 2020

        Hi Gerard, what about the crank? It seems like the Force AXS Wide crankset has an 8-bolt spider, while the Force 1 crankset has a 3-bolt spider. How would you go about swapping out the Force AXS Wide chainrings (43-30T) with a single narrow-wide chainring (say 36T)? Thanks!

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          17 December 2020

          Why would you want to take a WIDE crankset and change it to 1x? It won’t give you any more tire clearance than the standard 1x would as the limiting factor for 1x is not the crank?

          Reply
  56. B

    Basti_ano says:

    25 April 2020

    Do you know if the 12s XTR 10-45 cassette would play well with the Eagle AXS derailleur? I know it brings up a few questions but but could also work out pretty well in my mind:
    – freehub compatibility: needs microspline but I have DT swiss hubs so this shouldn’t be an issue
    – chain compatibility: Hyperglide+ chain is recommended but probably any 12s chain (except flattop) should work – what I hear the added shifting benefit comes from the cassette. At least in the MTB world some bigger brands spec their XTR models with different chains
    – chainring: in case Hyperglide+ chain is used a compatible chainring is needed but I hear different opinions so that most (if not all) narrow-wide would work

    But given all above compatibility questions can be cleared this could be a valid combination with a pretty perfect range isn’t it? Plus maybe with the added benefit of the Shimano 12s cassette optimisation.

    Curious to hear your opinion on this combo.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      25 April 2020

      Not sure. Sounds to me like a lot of trouble for no gain (at least I am not sure what you mean by “Shimano 12s cassette optimisation”). A SRAM 11-50T cassette gives you the same range, no proprietary freehub body, no mixing of Shimano and SRAM in unknown ways (unlike for example a SRAM cassette on a Shimano drivetrain which happens a lot, even in pro cycling, because it actually works better in some cases).

      Reply
      1. B

        Basti_ano says:

        25 April 2020

        when you say it, it’s pretty obvious I just fell victim of some marketing bs… and tried to construct a combination on top of it with not much benefit even in best case scenario. thanks, this is excatly the clarity I knew I could find here

        Reply
  57. F

    Felix says:

    23 April 2020

    Do you know if a Rotor crankset and a Rotor cassette (11-46) can be combined with your described SRAM mullet AXS setup? Looking forward to your reply. Best regards. Felix

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      24 April 2020

      Absolutely, no problem.

      Reply
      1. F

        Felix says:

        24 April 2020

        Great, thank you! And does it work the other way around, can I pair a Rotor crankset with a SRAM cassette 10-50? Finally, would you recommend a specific chain? Thank you again!

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          25 April 2020

          With the ROTOR cassette I would use the KMC chain. A ROTOR crank with a SRAM cassette would also work. Not sure what chain would work best then, I don’t think it would matter much but the SRAM chain would work for sure.

          Reply
          1. F

            Felix says:

            26 April 2020

            Gerard, thank you very much for your advice! Final question for this matter: the online shops I looked at state the Rotor ALDHU 3D Direct Mount, noQ as compatible with 1×11, not 1×12. I couldn’t find the crankset with a 1×12 specification. Does it not matter and the crankset, the Rotor cassette 11-46 and SRAM RD AXS will work together regardsless – or are there indeed different Rotor cranksets for 1×12?? Thanks for your help – and this very great hack article 🙂

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              26 April 2020

              Best to check with Rotor on this, but tell them the rear derailleur, cassette & chain you want to use to make sure you get the correct answer.

              Reply
  58. G

    Gerben says:

    16 April 2020

    Great article, and really good to know, because I thought I would be stuck with 33 at the rear! But how much of a ‘hack’ is it really? Or is it just something people don’t know that’s possible? Wouldn’t want to lose this feature in a future AXS app update or whatever.

    Anyway, right now I’ve been enjoying a Apex 1 group set (42 chainring) and 11-42 cassette. I think this range is fine, could be smaller, but I think 33 is too small. Do you have an idea if I can buy Force eTap AXS shifters on my road bike and buy an Eagle X01 rear derailleur and be done with it? (Maybe another chain? Using a KMC 11 speed chain now). I would like to upgrade part by part to not spend a MASSIVE amount of money in one go (it’s still expensive, but you get the idea). So I would like to keep the Apex 1 42t chainring if possible and only swap my shifters. Would these shifters work with the Apex 1 brakes? same connection etc? The shifters look the same, but you never know. I wouldn’t want to buy new brakes because these are fine.

    I am planning to buy new wheels with an XD body so I can fit a 12 speed cassette. I’ve read you said you can’t mix road or MTB cassettes right? I would imagine this would be easy with just a setting in the app for the derailleur in theory? Or is that too easily though?

    tl:dr: Can I buy an Eagle X01 rear derailleur and Force eTap shifters without needing anything else?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      16 April 2020

      Hi Gerben, it’s a hack insofar as it mixes different group sets (and as you say, many people seem unaware and the SRAM website did not really mention it until recently, months after this blog went live). But to your point, SRAM has stated they WANT this to be possible, the moniker “AXS” stands for these parts talking to each other even if they are from different groups, so this functionality will not go away with a future update.

      Whether you can buy separate parts or only the whole group seems to depend on who you ask and where you live, so just try. The chain should not be the Flattop road chain but the mountain bike chain. It should however be 12-speed. KMC works fine, in fact with the ROTOR cassettes it works better than the SRAM Eagle chain.

      For 12-speed, the SRAM road & MTB cassettes can be mixed (well, they have to be matched with a derailleur with the right range of course).

      Reply
      1. G

        Gerben says:

        17 April 2020

        Hi Gerard, thanks for the response!

        And can I keep using my 1×11 Apex 1 chainring, or any other 11 speed single chainring?

        So to clarify, I can use a 12 speed road cassette with the Eagle AXS rear derailleur? I thought there was a difference in width (XD and XDR body).

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          17 April 2020

          Now you’re mixing different things. There are two bodies, xD and xD-R, they are really the same except the small-diameter portion of the xD-R body is 1.8mm longer (and the large diameter section is hence 1.8mm shorter). But there is a 1.8mm spacer and once you slide that onto an xD-R body, it’s functionally the same as an xD driver. So best to have a wheel with an xD-R body and you can fit any type of xD(-R) cassette.

          That said, you cannot shift just any cassette with the Eagle rear derailleur. Nothing to do with spacing, but if the cassette is too small, the gap to the pulleys of the Eagle rear derailleur simply gets too large and the B-gap cannot be closed. You can find a lot more on that here: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/01/12405/gravel-bike-tech-gears-for-tough-climbs-part-1/

          Most 11-sp rings will work with the Eagle chain so then there would be no need to change that.

          Reply
          1. G

            Gerben says:

            17 April 2020

            Might had some miscommunication, but it’s clear now! Thanks again.

            As far as cranksets go, what would you advice? I’ve got a 2nd hand Exploro frame in sight, and I am thinking about moving my Apex 1 groupset over to it. But I’m not too fond of the GXP design (Hambini anyone?), and since a BB to GXP is kinda expensive, and the lack of 3rd party chainrings (stupid proprietary spider) I was thinking maybe I could get something else that’s more future proof and versatile? Like a 24mm BB that would fit the Shimano GRX for example. Would that still work while I’ve got the Apex 1 1×11 setup and later get a 1×12 Eagle setup (with a different 12 speed chain ofcourse)? I want to upgrade my bike in parts because the RD and shifters are 1100-1200 bucks together as well.

            Do you happen to know if the Force AXS shifters work with the Apex brake lines and brakes? They look like they’re the same.

            Reply
  59. K

    Kevin McHugh says:

    11 April 2020

    Gerard, I’m interested in loading an AXS Mullet set-up on my tandem. I have 2014 Co-Motion Carerra currently set with a 2x (48/32, 11×32). I really like the idea of going to 1x 10X50 AXS with road shifters (likely Force).
    AXS Eagle rear Der, 10×50, Force levers seem clear. Chainring is my current worry. I’m using Lighting cranks and see I can order a XX1 spider for the rear crank. Can I put a X1 road ring on an XX1 spider? and eagle chain?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      13 April 2020

      You HAVE TO use an Eagle chain, and hence you can use an XX1 spider and ring. Questions is if you can find an XX1 ring (SRAM or another brand that makes a ring for that) in a big enough size. Otherwise you can ask Lightning if the new AXS spider would also fit, then you can put on a SRAM road ring.

      Reply
  60. S

    Sascha says:

    10 April 2020

    Hi Gerard,
    Thanks for your comprehensive overview, best I found in the interwebs!
    Do you recommend Rotor Cranks in a Sram Eagle setup?
    I like and use Rotor cranks and oval chainrings with my roadbikes (Sram Force 10/Shimano Ultegra Di2)
    My next bike should handle gravel/road 50/50 and be 1x with SramAXS Shifters and Eagle derailleur AND Rotor ALDHU crank and cassette e.g. 11-46.
    Do you see any issues using a ROTOR crank?
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts

    Reply
  61. T

    Tycx says:

    10 April 2020

    Great post! Feel like the only source of this very valuable data.
    I am playing now with the idea to upgrade my 2018 salsa Fargo to a 1 by setup, and ideally with etap (I don’t see any other way considering the dropbar, same issue as gravel bikers experience).

    Im currently running 2×9 setup with 24t/38t chainrings and 11-36 cassette. It is a good setup range wise but has few redundant gears. In addition as i often use it on the road I end up mainly using the larger chainring and very often riding only on the highest gear (hence 38t chainring on 11t cog).

    The problem on the Fargo is that officials it would only take 34t chainring on non boost 1by setup or 36 on the boost one. I assume it could stretch 2 more teeth so 36t would work non boost.

    What id like to achieve is have a bit higher gear and get rid of redundant gears (in my current 18 gear 2×9 setup I have effectively only 13 gears.

    What I don’t like about the eagle is the 20% jump between 10 and 12 but I think for the sake of having a bit higher gear it would still serve me well.

    Now comes the biggest issue I can’t solve yet from searches online – considering the chainring restrictions on the Fargo I can’t seem to find a 36t crank. Sram force 1 claims to have it on the website but anything below 40 is just not available in the market (I’m mainly searching German shops). Any idea where I could fine that?

    The rest of the equipment I need is quite clear to me but I’d appreciate a quick review:

    1. both sides levers for mechanical brakes (will connect to TRP HY/RD), I think I need to buy the 2×12 and configure them to act as 1x since one comment here says one shifter shifts up and the other down.
    2. Casette 10-50 most likely
    3. the crank i have issues finding
    4. eagle chain
    5. eagle rear derailleur AXS

    Would appreciate any help and happy Easter to you all!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      10 April 2020

      I would get a Force AXS crank and then simply switch to a Wolftooth chainring on it. They have a better offset than the standard SRAM chainrings and it comes in the size you need.

      As for the shifters, there is no difference between a 1x and a 2x AXS shifter, they are identical. And you need both even for 1x, one for up-shifts and one for down-shifts. You shift the front derailleur by pressing both left and right at the same time.

      Reply
      1. T

        Tycx says:

        13 April 2020

        Thanks Gerard, replacing the chainring sounds like a great idea. I am wondering if in this case there is a reason to prefer the force crank instead of the budget friendly gx eagle crank ? (as I understand both are direct mount so the Wolftooth chainring would fit on either)

        Reply
    2. Gerard Vroomen says:

      13 April 2020

      Well, only one of those two will easily fit. If the Fargo has an MTB sized BB (I think it does), then indeed GX is the way to go, not a road crank.

      Reply
      1. T

        TycX says:

        12 May 2020

        For posterity, I just wanted to update that the setup works. Indeed the Fargo takes an MTB sized BB. Also in case someone reads this the 36 chainring does fit the Fargo even with the non-boost chainline.
        I went with sram GX DUB crank and used the neat Wolftooth CAMO system with a spider for 49mm chainline.

        The interesting stuff I’ve learned about chainlines (see https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/boost-chainline-and-chainrings) is that the best chainline for eagle appears to be 49mm (non boost) with a boost rear hub. I always though boost crank should go with boost rear hub but according to their article that’s not the case.

        Gerard you’ve mentioned something quite similar to Wolftoothˋs recommendation, saying that 47mm chainline being your favorite but that such chainrings usually don’t fit. What do you think about the non-boost crank with boost hub combo? Should be offsetting the needed chainline 3mm which supposed to be almost a perfect match to the 49mm chainline.

        Reply
        1. T

          TycX says:

          12 May 2020

          well, actually re-reading the Wolftooth article, seems like for 12 speed they say boost chainring would be a must. But mathematically the 49mm seems to add up. Im confused 🙂

          Reply
  62. a

    alessandro pesucci says:

    05 April 2020

    Hi,
    I use an easton crank with direct Mount chain ring on my Exploro.
    Race face has compatibilty with the direct Mount cranckset from 30 up to 36. Can you tell me which is the minimum cranckset that can be mounted on the exploro?
    Regards
    Alessandro

    Reply
  63. M

    Martin Elderhorst says:

    29 March 2020

    Hi Gerard, I have a Santa Cruz Stigmata with 2 wheelsets (28×34 and 27.5×54). 11 speed SRAM Force cx-1, 42T, two cassettes 11-28 and 11-42. So one set as road bike and one more gravel/ ATB. I would like to go to SRAM AXS Eagle 12-speed with X01 RD and Force Etap brake/shift combo. My question is, could the X01 AXS RD handle besides the Eagle 10-50 cassette also a SRAM AXS 11-28 cassette? My current 11-speed Rival RD has no problem with both 11-28 or 11-42. Although it may not be perfect with the long cage I would like to give this a try. Thanks
    Kind regards
    Martin Elderhorst

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      31 March 2020

      No, that definitely won’t work. The Eagle rear derailleur won’t even work with the 10-33. That’s why the Rotor cassettes are a great option. For extreme range setups, you can check this post: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/01/12405/gravel-bike-tech-gears-for-tough-climbs-part-1/

      For having different gears on two wheel sets, there’s this post: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/01/12377/gravel-bike-tech-on-off-road-performance-part-1/

      Reply
  64. M

    Mike Stewart says:

    28 March 2020

    Hi Gerard, great information, I have a sram force axs group set of a broken bike and was thinking about putting it on my gravel bike. Any tips ?, I know you don’t recommend running a 2 x but as i have all the bits.
    Thanks

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      28 March 2020

      Hi Mike, I am not against 2x per se, it’s just that with Force AXS it’s a bit tough to get a small enough gear with 46/33 chainrings and a 10-33 cassette (and maybe you don’t even have those). But if that works where you live, or if you can deal with whatever gearing you have until rings and cassette wear out and then switch, then that’s a good solution. I may not be a huge fan of the Sram AXS 2x gear range for gravel, I am a huge fan of re-using stuff so go ahead!

      Reply
      1. M

        Mike Stewart says:

        29 March 2020

        Thanks mate, my other option would to put a 1 x 36 on the front and 10-33 cassette but this limits me on the bigger climbs. I’ll let you know how the 2x goes, thanks for the advise
        Mike

        Reply
  65. R

    Roman Uhl says:

    11 March 2020

    Has anyone tried to hack the SRAM FORCE ETAP AXS with a Garbaruk 11/12-speed rear derailleur cage (https://www.garbaruk.com/rear-derailleur-cage-for-sram-11-speed.html?category=15)? This could be an economical way to use the SRAM 1×12 road ecosystem with much more capable casettes. Any oppinions on that?

    Reply
    1. R

      Roman Uhl says:

      11 March 2020

      UPDATE to above post: I contacted Garbaruk. They mentioned that said rear derailleur cage was not compatible with SRAM FORCE/RED ETAP AXS rear derailleurs. But they are currently designing a new model specificly for these derailleurs. I am trying to find out, when they will release it.

      Reply
      1. R

        Roman says:

        13 March 2020

        UPDATE to above post: Garbaruk is planning to release cages for SRAM FORCE/RED ETAP AXS rear derailleurs with capacity for maybe up to 50T (their current prototype is shifting 42T max.) by end of April 😉

        Reply
        1. G

          Guy says:

          14 March 2020

          I hope this means that Garbaruk also have plans for a 10-42 12 speed cassette!

          Reply
          1. S

            Seb says:

            06 April 2020

            It does – also contacted them last week and they confirmed all the above. Seems like finally the wait for a meaningful gravel 12 speed setup is over for me.

            Reply
        2. R

          Roman Uhl says:

          26 April 2020

          It is now listed on their website:

          https://garbaruk.com/sram-12-speed-axs-rd-cage.html?category=15

          Shifts up to 52 speed cassettes!!

          Reply
          1. C

            Clifak says:

            29 April 2020

            I ordered one earlier this week. Despite the site showing backordered with a 14 business day delay, mine shipped today and should be here Friday. I’m currently running the Eagle AXS derailleur with a Rotor 11-39 cassette but I still have my Force AXS derailleur and interested in seeing if it works better. The Eagle derailleur has never shifted 100% with the Rotor cassette. It always shifts but some gears are more dirty than others. I think it has to do with the 39 being a bit small for it.

            It looks like the Garbaruk cage comes with an optional extender. As I understand it 42 max without and 52 max with it. Guess I’ll find out soon enough.

            Reply
            1. K

              Keith says:

              05 May 2020

              Let us know how it goes, looking into this option myself.

              Reply
              1. C

                Clifak says:

                09 May 2020

                So I put in over 60 miles since installing it last Friday. The 39t was a small for Eagle so shifting was good, but sometimes a little dirty. Shifting is super solid with Garbaruk’s Force AXS cage. This solution is cheaper than going Eagle for those interested in running a 1x setup for road or gravel and if you run a cassette like me, you’ll have much tighter gearing. It’s also 80g lighter than Eagle, 70g with the extender. Only downside is that it makes a little noise in the extreme gears, but only on the road. I think it’s a combination of the cage being aluminum vs carbon and the Orbit fluid damper instead of the clutch in the Eagle version. I still need to test the cage/extender with my 50t wide range cassette but if it’s just as clean I’ll definitely go this route over running Eagle.

                I chatted with Garbaruk this week to let them know that the Force AXS derailleur needs a special tool to remove/replace the cage. Anyone who has added a Ceramicspeed pulley/cage to AXS knows about this since the tools is included in the kit. Garbaruk said they used a flathead screwdriver, which I guess you “can” use but I’d rather have the tool. A pro shop down the street hooked me up with the tool. Garbaruk also confirmed they’re releasing two cassettes they consider to be for “road”. One will be 10-42t 12 speed and the other 11-42t 11 speed.

                Reply
                1. H

                  Henrik says:

                  10 May 2020

                  This sounds awesome! Do you use the axs flattop chain or eagle chain? Is it compatible with both?

                  Reply
                  1. C

                    Clifak says:

                    12 May 2020

                    KMC regular 12 speed chain. The Garbaruk pulleys are compatible with the AXS chain but the Rotor cassettes are not. I believe Garbaruk said their new cassettes will be but don’t quote me on that. The Rotor cassettes don’t really like Eagle chains so make sure you use a KMC one if you go that route.

                    Reply
                2. U

                  Ulli Seibel says:

                  13 May 2020

                  I also had a chat with Garbaruk. They claim that you will still be able to use the 10-33T cassette with their cage. Has anyone tried this out? Cannot imagine that this works as the gap between the upper pulley and the 33T cog should be to big. But as I asked two times and the answers was „that’s what it is designed for“ it would be interesting to try…

                  It would enable my perfect setup for both road and gravel in a 2×12 setup. The 10-33T cassette from SRAM for road and the Rotor 11-39 for gravel. Capacity of the drivetrain is 42 according to Garbaruk. That would be sufficient for the 11-39 cassette with 33-46 chainrings.

                  Reply
                  1. C

                    Clifak says:

                    20 May 2020

                    I still have the 10-33t cassette so I’ll test it when I get a new chain.

                    Reply
                    1. R

                      Rainer says:

                      20 December 2020

                      Hi Clifak,wondering if you did meanwhile test this?

                3. I

                  Italo says:

                  11 May 2021

                  Hello, there are not new cassettes on the Garbaruk website.

                  Reply
  66. M

    Martin says:

    10 March 2020

    So, if I go with standard Force AXS 1x 10-33 cassette and later want a bigger range – this requires an Eagle RD and chain, plus a Rotor or Eagle cassette? There seems to be demand for ~10-36 cassette. Is the AXS RD absolutely maxed at 33t cog?
    On the flip side – if I go Mullet Force AXS shifters / Eagle RD, the smallest cassette that works is the Rotor 11-39 and requires a KMC chain … ?
    If only GRX were wireless …
    Thanks!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      11 March 2020

      According to SRAM, the Force/Red AXS RD is absolutely maxed out at 33T. As you say, 10-36 would be a nice cassette, but 11-39 is virtually the same as long as you adjust your front chainring the same way. So that works well as a “fixed” solution but it’s not great if you want to swap between two wheels and other wheel set requires a different chainring size.

      If GRX were wireless, it still would only be 11-speed so maybe you’d have the range you’d like but the steps would be bigger. Time for some new drivetrains!!

      Reply
      1. M

        Martin says:

        11 March 2020

        Is this a physical limitation or because that’s their available cassette?
        The issue I see with AXS is how tied the RD and cassettes are to each other. With Shimano, in general, with longer cage RD, it’s possible to use many cassettes.
        Upon further look, you are absolutely right that the Rotor 11-39 is equivalent to the SRAM 10-33 – the ‘business case’ for the Rotor one being that it ‘can’ work with an Eagle RD for the person wanting tightly spaced cog alternative to the Eagle cassette.
        Also, it does seem that the Rotor 11-46 cassette is pretty much perfect – with a 52t ring, it is exactly the same range as my Ultegra 2×11 setup (I count 15 distinct gears) with effectively 3 fewer cogs. I need to find a 1x 52t ring …

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          11 March 2020

          physical limitation.

          Reply
  67. S

    Steve says:

    08 March 2020

    Gerard,
    Do you think there are any plans for SRAM to move Force 1 to 12 speed mechanical with the same gear ranges and options as Force/Eagle AXS? It might make me wait until that comes out instead of getting AXS now. Thanks

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      09 March 2020

      If I knew, I couldn’t tell you.

      But since I don’t know, I can tell you I do not think so.

      Reply
      1. S

        Steve says:

        09 March 2020

        Thanks Gerard,
        Looks like I will just suck it up and upgrade to Force/Eagle. It is more expensive but way more flexible.

        Reply
  68. B

    Brian Roberson says:

    08 March 2020

    First, thank you Gerard for your excellent blog and being so generous with your advice. If I upgrade to Force/Eagle AXS system, can I interchange a road wheelset (11-39 ROTOR cassette) and gravel wheelset (11-52 ROTOR cassette)? If so, will the wheel swap require adjustments to the b-limit screw or chain length? In the absence of 10-cog, 12-speed cassette options, I think this will best suit my riding terrain (with a 44T or 46T chainring).

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      08 March 2020

      I haven’t tried that exactly, but that’s a pretty big range to make work. Of course “does it work” is not really a binary question, it’s also a matter of if it works to your standard.

      Reply
  69. James says:

    07 March 2020

    Hi all, my setup is an Exploro with Eagle AXS and the e*Thirteen TRS+ 12 speed 9-46 cassette. Crankset is Force 1 AXS DUB 40T. Chain is the included YBN 12 speed.

    My only issue so far is rasping noises while on the 9 and 10 cogs. Have tried all kinds of adjustments (B screw, hi limit, micro adjust) but no solution yet. Any advice on things to try is welcome!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      07 March 2020

      Hi James, could be anything, hard to say from behind my keyboard, and it is true that it will be a bit noisier than a SRAM cassette. In general, SRAM cassettes are the quietest (even on some Shimano drivetrains), and Shimano and Campagnolo obviously also have teams of engineers working on that. When you get to the smaller manufacturers, the advantage is they can do small runs of niche combinations, the downside is they don’t have as many people working on getting that one tooth profile just right.

      Reply
  70. R

    Ric Smith says:

    28 February 2020

    @Gerard – I currently have a mechanical Force 1x Group Set and am considering upgrading to AXS. I was curious about what to do with the left brake lever. Is there any reason in terms of shape/size to change them out? Or is it really just about aesthetics? Thanks!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      07 March 2020

      Hi Ric, with AXS eTap, you need both the left and right shifter even with 1x. One shifter to shift up, the other to shift down. So it’s not like mechanical where both actions for the rear derailleur are in the same lever. (and similarly where the left lever is used to shift the front derailleur, with eTap this is done by actuating BOTH levers).

      Reply
  71. Pete says:

    26 February 2020

    Is it possible to run an Eagle AXS rear derailleur in a 2X setup to allow for a Rotor 11–36 cassette? Really wish SRAM offered a sub-compact Force/Red front chainring setup.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      26 February 2020

      Not really, the Eagle travel path doesn’t conform to such a small cassette very well.

      Reply
  72. J

    Jeff Sanford says:

    25 February 2020

    Currently building an AXS equipped 1X using the 12 speed Gabaruk 10-48 I’ll give a mini review when I can. Although I would prefer using a 10-46 12 speed cassette with nice close spacing (10-12-14-15-16-18-20-24-30-34-40-46) with a 40t front chainring this will have to do for now.

    Reply
    1. R

      Roman Uhl says:

      11 March 2020

      Hi Jeff, have you had any luck with that cassette/that combination? Would you recommend it?

      Reply
  73. P

    Paul Molenschot says:

    23 February 2020

    Can I use an mtb Eagle xx1 mechanic rear dearailleur on a gravelbike? I only read about AXS as exchangeable.
    I read somewhere only the crankset is different?
    And is there a use of 12×148 boost ever in a gravelbike?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      23 February 2020

      AXS is compatible with other AXS parts. AXS is the common language that let’s all AXS communicate, so a road AXS shifter can work with an MTB AXS rear derailleur.

      Using a mechanical Eagle rear derailleur on a bike with a dropper is not possible with standard SRAM parts, that would require modifications.

      Reply
  74. P

    Philipp says:

    09 January 2020

    Great article, helps me a lot! Is it possible to use the rotor 10-52 13-speed with the Eagle derailleur or ‘only’ the rotor 10-50?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      09 January 2020

      Sorry I misread your question. You can NOT shift the 13-speed ROTOR 10-52 cassette with the 12-speed Eagle AXS rear derailleur. You CAN shift the 12-speed ROTOR 11-52 cassette with the Eagle AXS derailleur. And of course also the SRAM 10-50 or 11-50 cassettes; there is no 10-50 Rotor cassette.

      Reply
      1. S

        Sa says:

        20 February 2020

        Bump to the February 2020 crowd. Has there been any update from sram about cassette choices? I would love etap axs but would want a 12 speed 10-42 cassette as this would be the ideal range for my gravel bike with less of a gap between ratios of my 11 speed 10-42.

        Come on sram

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          20 February 2020

          I wouldn’t hold my breath for a 10-42 solution but going with the ROTOR 11-46T cassette gives you almost the same range and your 12 gears. See more info here: https://blog.3t.bike/2020/01/12405/gravel-bike-tech-gears-for-tough-climbs-part-1/

          Reply
  75. M

    Marcel says:

    05 January 2020

    Hi, that means, i can use XX1 ASX (Designer for 12speed) with a 11speed cassette?
    In my case 10-42 and Front 40.
    Greets marcel

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      05 January 2020

      No, you cannot, the cog spacing won’t work.

      Reply
  76. G

    Giulio says:

    05 January 2020

    You can even use an INGRID’s cassette.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      07 January 2020

      Yes, you could use INGRID’s 10-48T cassette too.

      Reply
  77. L

    LUIGI says:

    25 December 2019

    My target idea:

    1. AXS red cassette.
    2. AXS red rear and front derailleur.
    3. Eagle chain.
    4. TA Specialities 11v. chainrings 110BCD (48/35) with Quarq Dzero DUB spynder and AXS Red DUB arms.

    Any issue? Thanks!

    Reply
    1. L

      Luca says:

      25 December 2019

      Hi
      Eagle chain won’t work with Red road derailleur.
      You’ll need specific flattop road chain.
      Not sure about 11speed chainrings as well

      Reply
      1. Pete says:

        27 February 2020

        Would it work with different jockey wheels? My understanding is the AXS flattop chain must be used with the AXS cassette, but don’t see why the Eagle chain wouldn’t work with the AXS derailleur and a different cassette.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          07 March 2020

          I don’t see the point in spending money on different pulleys just to use an Eagle chain instead of the Flattop chain that is designed for it. What would be the upside of all this trouble?

          Reply
    2. Gerard Vroomen says:

      29 December 2019

      Luca is right.

      Reply
  78. L

    Luca says:

    23 December 2019

    Hi Gerard
    have you tried yet a Force / Red road rear derailleur with Wolftooth roadlink?
    i like gravel adventures as well as road racing, so i was looking for a combo that would fit well both worlds, avoiding huge gear gaps (so annoying riding on tarmac!)
    for that reason i’d like to keep a 2x system, a 46/33 front crankset with two options: 10-28 or 33 for road use and Rotor 11-36 for gravel riding. but axs r.d. can handle max a 33t cog.. so i was wondering if the roadlink would work with new axs r.d., as it does with older red etap 11s (i’ve tried it personally and it shifts perfectly)
    thank you

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      29 December 2019

      Haven’t tried that, sorry.

      Reply
    2. I

      Ian says:

      30 December 2019

      That’s nearly the exact setup that I’m looking at for my new recumbent bike. Being on the recumbent I want/need a lower low and higher high than I could see with a 1x setup. Though I’m looking to go further on the rear with either the Rotor 11-39 or 11-46. My shop wants to try it with the Force AXS rear with the WolfTooth RoadLink. Really hoping it works, not sure what other setup I can do to get the gear range I want. Will try to remember to come back here with results when it gets built up in a month or two.

      Reply
  79. Atilla Yalman says:

    17 December 2019

    Hello Gerard,
    Really good article to clear many questions mark to change from 2x to 1x. Thanks for the afford..
    I have a question;
    Currently Im using Sram eTap 11 speed with DT Swiss PR1400 240s. Im really interested with Rotor 11-46 cassette but the problem is my current free hub will work or not? Do I need to buy another model?
    I already emailed to Rotor and Dt Swiss but they couldnt give me an answer. Could you give some advise? Which model I need?

    My future setup:
    – Sram Eagle AXS XX1
    – Rotor 11-46 Cassette
    – Sram Force 1x Crankset 44
    – Sram Eagle Chain
    – Sram Force AXS Brake/Gear Levers

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      22 December 2019

      Hi Atilla, if currently your wheels have a cassette starting with an 11T (or more) cog, then you have a normal free hub body and the 11-46 ROTOR will fit without changes. If you currently ride with a cassette starting with a 10T (or 9T) cog, then your wheels have an xD(r) free hub body and you would need to change it to a regular free hub body. But on most hubs that is a very easy switch.

      Reply
      1. Atilla Yalman says:

        26 December 2019

        Thats really good news but here comes other question; if my road wheelset 11-46 Rotor and gravel wheelset has 11-50 Sram cassette what you think about chain lenght and rear dreilleur adjustment? I think thats not ideal doing micro adjustment each time wheelset changes…

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          29 December 2019

          Hi Atilla, if you set up the correct chain length for the 11-50, it should be no problem to run the 11-46 with the same chain length. As for the RD adjustment, that also needs to be set up for the 11-50 to then work on the 11-46. There is some wiggle room, so it makes sense to make the setup a little on the tight side of the range for 11-50 so that you don’t have huge gaps on the 11-46. Just see how you like the function when you do this, and whether you are OK with it or prefer to do a quick B-gap change every time (once you know the B-gap delta between the two setups, it’s also not a lot of work to to the X turns one way or another.

          Reply
          1. Atilla Yalman says:

            20 February 2020

            Another question please. Is Sram Eagle rear drailleur (AXS or manuel version) would work with Rotor 11-52 cassette?

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              20 February 2020

              Yes.

              Reply
  80. Richard J says:

    11 December 2019

    Is 3T going to come out with a 12 speed XDr cassette with better better big cog spacing for climbing? I’m thinking something like the 3T Overdrive, but with a 12th cog, would be amazing.
    The SRAM 10-33 sucks for guys who are not pure climbers like me. You go from 24 to 28 to 33. That’s way too much of a jump in the bigger cog area of the cassette. This could also help gravel riders who want to stick to a 2X setup.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      11 December 2019

      No direct plans. BTW, I don’t mind the final jump being large, whether it is with overdrive or bailout, some level of bailout is always handy. When you need your smallest gear, you often REALLY need that smallest gear and so the smaller it is, the better, even if it is far removed from the second smallest gear.

      Reply
      1. A

        Anthony says:

        17 December 2019

        Awesome write up Gerald! Exactly what I was looking for. A few comments. My non-classic UP currently is set up 1x with Ultegra hydraulic di2 shifters, XTR di2 RD, Easton EC90 SL direct mount /cinched crankset (38 ring), and xx1 10-42 cassette. Everything works great. Sometimes, however, when tackling steep technical sections or just really long long day of climbing, I wished I had that 12 th gear. If I went with 12 speed Sram axs and the 11-50 or 10-50 cassette, would I have to purchase a new crankset too? Thank you.

        Reply
        1. A

          Anthony says:

          17 December 2019

          My apologies. “Gerard”.

          Reply
        2. Gerard Vroomen says:

          22 December 2019

          Hi Anthony, should be no new crankset required. With the Eagle rear derailleur, you need to use the Eagle chain not the 12-speed road chain. And the Eagle chain works with most standard chainrings. You can check with Easton but I would be surprised if their was an issue (and if there is, they probably have new rings now that do work).

          Reply
  81. c

    clifak says:

    03 December 2019

    Thanks for this informative breakdown, only wish I found it sooner. I upgraded from Force 1 42/10-42 to Force AXS 1x 38/10-33(I wanted smaller gaps) on my Open using an EC90 SL cranket with Wolftooth AXS compatible 1x chainring. My hope was to eventually go 2x once 3rd party AXS compatible 2x chainrings were available but it seems the only rings are CarbonTi which are crazy expensive and Rotor which are non-existent. I’ve always run the Easton crankset with cinch powermeter and don’t want to move to the Force AXS crank if possible.

    Other than switching to the Eagle derailleur and running the Rotor cassette in a 1x setup, is it possible to run 110 bcd chainrings in the front? Or maybe even the Easton direct mount gravel chainrings?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      03 December 2019

      You could run a 110mm BCD crank in the front, but the smallest inner ring would be a 34T so you have to see if 34×33 is big enough for you. With direct mount you have more flexibility on chainring size. That said, the limit is around a 30/32T inner chainring depending on the whole setup.

      And of course these rings have to be 12-speed compatible, 11-speed rings will be too wide for the Flattop chain.

      Reply
  82. Ben Martinek says:

    03 December 2019

    Really happy to find this post as I was a sucker that bought the AXS 40 1X setup. A thought occurred, what about the new Shimano 10-45 12-speed cassete? about 150g more than the Rotor, but also a 10T lower cog.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      03 December 2019

      Maybe that works (although I think the spacing is not exactly the same), but it would require a rear hub with a micro-spline free hub body. So if you love the sound of yet another “standard” crashing into our lives, great. Otherwise, not so great.

      Reply
  83. l

    luis says:

    03 December 2019

    HI!! First of all, congratulations fot this post!! Great information to read! Thanks! One question… are you sure that etap axs derailleur dont work with a 11-39 Rotor cassette? Which is the maximum cassette cog that can work with a etap axs derailleur? Thanks!”

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      03 December 2019

      I presume you mean the road (Force or Red AXS) rear derailleurs, then yes I am sure they do not work. You would need the Eagle AXS rear derailleur for that.

      Reply
      1. L

        LUIS says:

        05 December 2019

        Yest, I mean AXS Red or Force! Thanks for your response, Gerard!

        Reply
  84. L

    Lala says:

    28 November 2019

    Hi Gerard, good day. Need some advice

    I’m current Strada user 1X. Cassette I have is 11speed 11-36

    I’m looking at upgrading to Force AXS Etap 12 Speed.

    After reading your valuable article, am I correct to buy the following ? My chainring is 44T and I’m comfortable with the speed now, even at 44t-11t combination

    1. Eagle AXS RD
    2. Rotor 11-39 cassette 12 speed
    3. Eagle chain
    4. Force AXS shifter

    If above spec is ok, any idea where can I get these parts separately? I see most website, even my local bike shop sell either full set upgrade kit, or full groupset.

    Thanks

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      29 November 2019

      I think your spec is correct, but buying separate parts is difficult. SRAM wants to sell this as a group. I know some “sub-groups” are available but I don’t know if it is possible to buy exactly what you list there. Even we as a manufacturer can only buy full groups.

      Reply
      1. Stefan Kasteren van says:

        30 November 2019

        Gerard, question from my site as I now have the Exploro Team with 44T front and 11-44 force1 behind. I love the setup for gravel and even ATB trails in The Netherlands but for road riding I miss my 50T front as well as my 1 : 1 for the Stelvio 😎.
        So i am thinking to indeed go for the SRAM AXS Force 1 eTap race set with the Eagle XX0 10-50T for rear but would it be possible to increase the front chain into 46T instead of the 44T? The LBS says max single speed front chain is 44T otherwise you come into the normal chain rings who are not ideal as the teeth ar less high. Can you please give me an advise on what to buy? Thanks Stefan

        Reply
        1. Stefan Kasteren van says:

          02 December 2019

          Gerard, I did some research and I guess I found a single speed front with 46T even 48 or 50T is possible.
          The Time trail/cyclecross SRAM RED 1 crankset FC-RED-1-D1. Any troughs on this one in combination with Eagle XX1 AXS 10/50T + Force eTAP shifters.

          Reply
          1. Gerard Vroomen says:

            03 December 2019

            The regular Force1 AXS crank comes with rings up to 48T. The aero version up to 50T. However, with SRAM’s chainlink, normally only rings up to 46T fit (although it will be close).

            Something like a 3T Torno with a 46T will have more clearance. A 48T or 50T SRAM ring normally doesn’t fit. However a flat ring like a Wolftooth in 48T or 50T does fit on most cranks, because it doesn’t have an inward offset like the SRAM rings.

            Reply
      2. L

        Lala says:

        30 November 2019

        Hi Gerard, thanks for the advice. Is time for me to hunt for the parts separately

        Reply
  85. J

    Jakob says:

    28 November 2019

    Hi Gerard,

    Jakob here, all the way from Nijmegen! Just got my hands on an 3t Exploro frameset and building it up with the new AXS force/eagle mixture. Also considering the 3t Torno crank. A few questions arise reading your blog:
    – Since I’m also a fanatic MTB rider (eagle AXS on boost cranks), I’m wondering how the Torno cranks will feel with the smaller Q-factor than average (142mm), I’m used to MTB sizing and force 1×11 on my old CX bike.
    – What’s your opinion on the e*thirteen’s TRS+ 12-Speed Cassette (9-46) as a do-it-all cassette for gravel and road workouts, I’ll use a 40t chainring.
    Thanks for your interesting comments so far!

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      28 November 2019

      My guess is the lower Q will feel great. That’s the most common reaction. Your MTB may not feel that great anymore but then again, if you live in Nijmegen (the place I was born!!) you won’t really need your MTB anymore!

      Off the non-Shimano/SRAM cassettes, e*thirteen has some of the best shifting. 9-46T may be more than you need, but you’ll find out and can always adjust once it’s worn out and replacement is needed.

      Reply
      1. j

        jakob says:

        28 November 2019

        Ok, let’s see then, learning by doing makes sense, since the price of the cassette is relatively low. Good to hear the shifting performance is approved.
        And so I heard you were born here :). Still one of the most interesting areas in Holland for most cycling disciplines! When over here, you should try out the new 70K single-track route the are building right now. Cheers and good luck with staying relentlessly simple!

        Reply
        1. j

          jakob says:

          28 November 2019

          I forgot one small/big question. Will the 40T or 42T chainring of the Torno work with both sram flattop and eagle chains? Or do I need to swop chainrings when swopping chains? Thanks!

          Reply
          1. Gerard Vroomen says:

            28 November 2019

            The 42T works with everything (the 46T as well). The 36, 40 and 44T work with the Eagle chain but not the Flattop. But only use the Flattop chain if you also swap your rear derailleur to a Force/Red AXS because that chain will not work with an Eagle RD.

            Reply
            1. J

              Jakob says:

              11 January 2020

              Hi Gerard,
              Being riding the Exploro LTD for some weeks now, praise the lord! What a magnificent riding experience. I mounted the Torno crank, which is above my expectation. Been riding both eagle and force AXS derailleurs and I found out that the Force + 10-33 cassette works out for me over here in Nijmegen. What would help me out is compatibility with the Torno 36, 40 and 44 chainrings. Any chance these will come out for the flattop chain in the net future?

              Reply
              1. Gerard Vroomen says:

                13 January 2020

                Hi Jakob, right now it’s just the 42T and 46T that are compatible with the Flattop. No date for more sizes right now, but teh next batch of each size that we order will be 12-speed compatible. So just check the Torno page regularly.

                Reply
                1. S

                  Stefano Toninel says:

                  24 March 2020

                  Gerard,

                  I just checked on Wolf Tooth website here: https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/chainrings/products/100-bcd-chainring-for-3t-torno

                  In the compatibility notes it states:”Chain Compatibility – 10, 11, & 12spd Eagle and Flattop”, without differentiating between 40T and 42T for example.

                  Does it mean that Wolf Tooth distributes now chainrings for the Torno which are 12 speed Flattop compatible on all sizes?

                  Thanks

                  Reply
        2. Gerard Vroomen says:

          28 November 2019

          BTW, “approved” is a big word, some people are more picky about shift speed, noise, etc than others. It shifts well, as do some others, but it’s not the same as a SRAM on every possible comparison.

          Reply
          1. j

            jakob says:

            28 November 2019

            Thanks Gerard! Ready to roll now. Greets from Emperor city.

            Reply
  86. P

    Phil Young says:

    26 November 2019

    Most bikes including gravel bikes are way over geared. The focus on getting lower gears usually looks only at getting bigger rear cassette cogs. SRAM’s AXS 10-33t cassette is more than big enough to handle all the gearing needs for both road and gravel bikes if small enough 2X chainrings are available. I have been talking with SRAM the last two years to encourage them to make 38t / 25t chainrings for AXS. SRAM’s 10-33t cassette with 38t / 25t chainrings setup offers wide-ratio gearing (101 inch-gear to 20 inch-gear) with fine jumps between shifts (10 to 15% jumps in two ranges). High gears you can’t use are a waste especially when you don’t have low enough gears and struggle to get up the hills. This 101 inch-gear to 20 inch-gear would be the perfect gearing for most gravel bikes and for some road bikes.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      26 November 2019

      Just one problem, a 38/25T crankset will not fit on most modern gravel bikes. Because almost all gravel bikes use dropped chainstays nowadays (feel free to blame me for this), the lower chain would touch the chainstay going from the 25T inner ring back to the rear derailleur. And gravel frames that don’t have dropped chainstays usually lack tire clearance. So then you have a beautiful small gear but not the tires to do anything with it.

      Reply
      1. P

        Phil Young says:

        27 November 2019

        My 2014 Santa Cruz Bronson CC MTB appears to have a dropped chainstay and a fairly wide 2.25″ x 27.5 Schwalbe Rocket Ron rear tire running a SRAM 11-speed XX1 cassette 10-42t with a Wolf Tooth Components 1x 24t chainring. This combination works just fine on my Bronson MTB. It should work on a gravel bike. Gravel bike designers could make some minor frame changes if needed to optimize the gearing setup. SRAM AXS has the perfect cassette a 10-33t for both gravel bikes and road bikes with the only parts missing being better selection of chainrings, especially the smaller ones.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          27 November 2019

          Well, I know of at least 5 models of gravel bikes that we’ve measured with dropped chainstays where not even a 30T ring works. A gravel frame is quite different than a mountain bike with a very mild chainstay drop, a 439mm long chainstay (much longer than most gravel bikes) and designed for a wide MTB crank instead of a narrow road crank.

          As for making “minor frame changes” to accommodate a 25T chainring, it’s not like a frame designer just slaps the chainstays onto the frame randomly. I’m sure some do, but if done properly, the BB area is a fight for every mm. That’s how we get the tire clearance that we do. Moving it to accommodate a 25T chainring would severely limit tire clearance (as a napkin calculation it would go down to a 48mm max width).

          So it’s not a minor impact on the tire clearance. Of course some may find a 48mm tire enough for where they ride, but others won’t. And it is quite likely that the places where the smallest gears are needed also require the biggest tires, so those are competing interests.

          Reply
  87. P

    Pär says:

    20 November 2019

    Hello! Do you know if the Sram force etap axs is possible to idé with a normal chainring like 53/39 shimano ultegra rings?
    Or does the chainring need to be a narrow wide or something like that?
    Tanks Pär

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      21 November 2019

      For 2x you could, although SRAM says it won’t shift as well when you use non AXS parts with the AXS derailleurs (even if those non AXS parts are SRAM).

      But why would you want to do that? You have a 10T cog in the back, so having 53×10 would give you a 9% bigger gear than Froome and Sagan with their 53×11. Do you really need that? And of course, the curvature of the front derailleur wouldn’t match the 53T ring as nicely as it would the smaller rings that match the 10T cog.

      Reply
  88. L

    Lukman says:

    18 November 2019

    Hi,

    Im on a road bike and going on a mountain climb. My chainring is the AXS Red 50-37 and I wouldnt want to change that. My rear D is AXS Red as well. Can I get away with using Rotor’s 12 speed 11-36T cassette? And No, I wouldnt want 10-33T for some reasons.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      18 November 2019

      Probably not, at least not according to SRAM with regards to the proper B-gap between that Force AXS rear derailleur and the 36T.

      Reply
  89. D

    David E says:

    13 November 2019

    Thanks for the great article! I have been doing some reading and am liking the idea of a Force/Eagle hybrid bike with both road and gravel/hillclimbing wheel/cassette sets.

    I’m curious though– with the 11-50, 11-39, 11-46 cassette options, can one select (or custom input) the ratios into the Sram AXS App, or are you limited to just the official 12spd AXS cassette options for the road/mtb derailleurs? I haven’t been able to find any information on whether selecting non-standard cassettes is possible with Sram’s software. If it is possible, part of me thinks it’d be pretty wicked to do a 2x 46/33 x 11-39 / 11-46 with the Force/Eagle derailleur system and set it up for full sequential mode on a mostly road but also gravel/hills bike.

    Thanks for the article! My inner gears are turning.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      14 November 2019

      Setting up a 2x system like that likely won’t work. The Eagle derailleur won’t have the capacity for it. There are always two things to consider with a rear derailleur, the biggest cog it can handle and the total capacity (how much chain it can store by going from extended to fully folded S shape). The Eagle is great in the first department, but it won’t have capacity left to store the tooth delta of the front rings. Maybe it can work with the 11-39, but very unlikely this could work with the 11-46.

      I’m not sure what the app can do, I don’t use the app.

      Reply
      1. C

        Chris from Swiss says:

        15 November 2019

        Hello Gerard,

        First, thank you for this blog and all the insights one can receive by reading into it.
        Let me start with an analogy here: On my Titanium Road and Gravel Travel Bike Lynskey GR270 I was using a flatbar with XT shifter, long XT RD-M8000-SGS and a single oval Absolute black 38 chainring. For the RD, the smallest cog = 11t, biggest cog=46, max capacity = 47t. With a Sunrace 11-50 cassette, shifting was almost perfect; With a SRAM 10-42 cassette, it was perfect shifting. Who would have known before trying?
        To receive bigger bandwith, i switched to 2x in front with 46/30 oval AB chainrings and xt 11-42 cassette. This time im within RD spec (31+16=47t) and obviously result is perfect shifting again. Bandwith is now perfect but i have to admit, im shifting rings quite often (missing the comfort which i had with the 1x system)
        Now I would like to switch to STIs and electronic shifting because a) i miss the drop bar and b) for audax Blips would be perfect. Goal is 2x AXS (Force AXS STI and Eagle RD). It would be worth trying if the eagle RD matches the needs which is (42-11)+(46-30)=47t for max capacity.

        If nobody does before christmas, i will order the set, try myself and post the results:)

        If i let sink in Gerards advice (even now after writing this for 10 minutes), i almost realize that this system is overkill and i maybe should follow the rule (less is more) and go for 1×42 /10-50.

        Feedback apprechiated!

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          16 November 2019

          I think you will find the Eagle rear derailleur doesn’t have the capacity to handle the delta between the front chainrings. At least we haven’t gotten that to work (yet).

          Reply
      2. B

        Benjamin McCann says:

        12 January 2020

        Hi Gerard,

        Phenomenal post, super useful. Thank You.

        I am also super impressed that you managed to reply to everyone’s questions. Top stuff.

        I was thinking of a 2xAXS force system with an Eagle rear mech. I understand what you mean when you say that the eagle mech won’t handle the extra of chain when you shift between the front rings, something I hadn’t considered. You state it will be more likely to work with a 11-39 than a 11-46.

        Applying the same logic am I right in thinking that a 11-36 rotor cassette would be even better for this set up? I think it is just low enough to make the off road in my area viable while also allowing me to smash it on the road. Not sure that I am really fast enough for a 10-33 anyhow.

        Having an eagle rear mech would also allow me to try 1X when I feel brave enough…

        Ben

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          13 January 2020

          There are two competing issues here as you shrink your cassette:
          1) you free up more capacity to take up the delta between the front rings
          2) the derailleur follows the shape of the cassette less and less, so you have trouble to keep the upper pulley close to the cassette over the whole range from smallest to biggest cog.

          I am not convinced you would be happy with any of the solutions you list. I’m hoping for some more cassette options in the future that would address those needs.

          Reply
  90. E

    Eric says:

    07 November 2019

    Hello, I’m still a bit confused regarding the crank. My bike came with Force AXS 2x, if I want to convert to 1x can I use the Force 2x crank or will I need to also buy a 1x specific crank? I appreciate the help.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      07 November 2019

      Since chainline isn’t that critical a dimension, you can convert 2x to 1x crank. Don’t take this to mean chainline doesn’t matter, but if it’s off by 1-2mm, it’s not a problem for the shifting performance. Finding a 1x-specific ring that fits on the 2x crank might be tough, you could look into getting a 1x-specific spider for it (with power this should be easy, whether you can find it without I don’t know. Best to have your shop see what they can get for spare parts and which are compatible with your 2x crank.

      Reply
      1. E

        Eric says:

        07 November 2019

        Thank you very much for the speedy reply and information, I really appreciate that. My crank is the AXS Force 46/33 so I will see what my shop has to say about finding a 1x-specific ring and/or spider. If it turns out I can’t make this work well I will definitely look into the Torno. Thanks again.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          07 November 2019

          The Torno is a very different beast when it comes to weight, aerodynamics, etc, but you have a lot of “sunk costs” already in the Force crank so it would be nice if that works out. Let us know how it goes.

          Reply
          1. E

            Eric says:

            03 December 2019

            Still trying to figure all of this out as the bike I purchased long before really understanding what I’d want/need has Force AXS 2x with the 10/33 and although I’ve gotten up some significant gravel climbs with the 33/33 I’d like lower. It’s a significant cost to switch everything and it’s essentially a wash cost wise to do either the Force/Eagle 1x build or a 2x GRX Di2 build. It’s a wash because I’m going to use the AXS parts that come off on my road bike since I have them. I guess the question I’m asking is if I’m inclined to do this would you go 1x or 2x? Much of my riding will be mixed terrain with some dedicated gravel events thrown in. Thanks for the advice!

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              04 December 2019

              I love the simplicity of 1x. I mean, I like it on the road, so obviously I also like it on gravel. Especially now with the new cassette options that are out for 12-speed (blog coming soon).

              Reply
        2. Bill Young says:

          15 June 2020

          Hi Eric, Like you I want to swap my 2 x 46/33 chain set to single 42 ring and I already have a spider power meter, Force version, so not integrated like RED. Do you know if this works ?

          Reply
  91. M

    Marcus says:

    27 October 2019

    Hey, great article.
    If I want to run an AXS drivetrain and also run a dropper post, triggered by my left (modified) sram shifter. Does Sram have a mechanical left hydro lever that matches the shape, nay even the look of the right AXS hydro lever?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      27 October 2019

      Good news and bad news.

      1) There is no left mechanical lever that matches the shape or look of the right AXS lever.
      2) Even if there was, that wouldn’t help you. AXS eTap doesn’t have a left shifter for the front and a right shifter for the back. Instead, the left shifter moves the cassette to a bigger gear, the right shifter moves the cassette to a smaller gear, and pushing both together shifts the front derailleur. So you need both shift levers even in a 1x setup.
      3) The good news: there is a Rockshox AXS dropper post that can be actuated by the AXS road levers. So the shift sequence normally reserved for the front derailleur shifting can then be used for the dropper.

      Reply
  92. K

    Kieran McKinley says:

    15 October 2019

    I’m looking at upgrading my Exploro which is running force 1 X 11 to axs 1 X 12, could I use the eagle derailleur with eagle chain on the red cassette 10/33 as where I ride it is mainly flat but if I travel away to hillier areas I would like to change the cassette to a eagle 10/50 it just seems a little expensive to have to purchase another derailleur (red axs) and chain if not required, I have a AXS aero 1 X 12 (48T) crankset on the way.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      15 October 2019

      SRAM says you cannot, that the 33T is too small for the Eagle rear derailleur. But you can use the Rotor 11-39T, it’s a bit bigger range but still very nice on the flats.

      Reply
      1. Kevin says:

        23 October 2019

        Wow I wish I had seen this when building up my new rig. I opted for the 10/33 with a 40 upfront. Thought that would be enough especially going from racing road It wasn’t. I suffered on a brutal ride that saw almost 5k of elevation gain in 50 miles. (Note that 10 miles had no elevation gain).

        I’m looking at the 11/39 option as well as a 9/46 now. I’ll need a new eagle in the back but at least I’ll have the right gearing.

        But before I pull the trigger any recommendations? My 2x was a 52/38 with an 11/28. Spent lots of tons on the 13/15 range when it came to sprinting or spinning the 38.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          23 October 2019

          Hi Kevin, that’s unfortunate. Given the gears you had before, I would consider the Rotor 11-46 cassette in combination with the Eagle rear derailleur.

          Reply
  93. M

    Michael O says:

    15 October 2019

    This is super interesting. Thanks. I was going to run 42 + 10-33 on my new road build but considering going 46 + 11-39 now. What I’m not super sure about is how well the rotor cassette shifts and I don’t really want to fool around since Eagle reach mech plus the cassette is a pretty sizable investment. Do you have any intel on that?

    Also do you think the Red/Force AXS mech can handle the 11-36?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      15 October 2019

      Hi Michael, we only recommend things that we have tried and like. To be exact, after the lab & road testing of the Eagle+Rotor setup, aside from the technical checks the comment from our engineer was: “Perfect, nothing wrong. Smooth shifting, low noise.”

      Reply
      1. T

        Tariq Bayjoo says:

        28 December 2019

        Hi, I tried using the Rotor 12-speed 11-39 cassette with my Eagle rear derailleur but for some reason the indexing doesn’t run smooth only on gears 2(48) and gear 2 (12). Obviously I’be used the micro shift function to fine tune the indexing it if I get it work correctly with one of those gears the other won’t index cleanly and vice-versa. When I use the Eagle cassette it’s super smooth in all gears. I set the B-tension one the Rotor using the AXS Eagle alignment gauge but no joy. Any insight from your team whom you state managed to make it work would be great. Thanks in advance.

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          29 December 2019

          Hi Tariq, did you adjust the chain length? you don’t really mention that. And I am not sure what you mean by “gears 2 (48)”.

          Reply
          1. C

            Clifak says:

            02 February 2020

            I believe he meant to write gear 33t which is the 2nd to the largest(39t), and gear 12t which is 2nd to the smallest(11t). I set this up with the 11-39t today and have the same issue. All other gears shift smoothly but if I microadjust so the 12t shifts smooth then the 33t doesn’t and vice versa.

            Regarding chain size, I set it up two ways in an attempt to resolve the shifting issue. First I setup the chain on the SRAM 11-50t cassette then tried moving it to the Rotor 11-39t and had the issue. Then I decided to try sizing the chain only to the Rotor cassette but had the same issue with shifting. When sizing only to the Rotor cassette there’s a 2nd issue which is that you can’t get the b-gap within the correct distance on the 39t gear.

            Reply
            1. C

              Clifak says:

              05 February 2020

              Quick update. It seems to be an issue with the chain brand used. I first tried the SRAM X01, then a 12 spd Campy, and both had shifting issues on those two gears. Spoke with Rotor and they said their cassette is designed for using KMC so I tried the X12 and it shifts correctly.

              Reply
              1. T

                Tariq Bayjoo says:

                27 March 2020

                Hi Clifak, that’s fascinating- firstly thanks for clarifying the issue I reported and also glad I wasn’t going crazy! With regard to chain length, I originally experienced the issue using the original SRAM Eagle chain sized for the 10-50 of my original mullet set-up. I also spoke to Rotor and they suggested a KMC 12-speed chain also. Tried that and sized it to the Rotor 11-39 but it didn’t resolve the issue for me.

                Reply
        2. C

          Clifak says:

          03 February 2020

          Tariq, Did you ever get the Rotor 11-39 cassette to shift correctly? I spent this weekend trying to work through the same issue. Gear 12 and 33 do not shift cleanly when one or the other is adjusted to work.

          Reply
  94. J

    Jason B says:

    13 October 2019

    Pleased to see this. My XTR/Di2 solution has worked well but it’s great to have (lighter?) choices. As a Strada Pro fan/rider, I’m curious about why you’ve not talked about a 9-(anything) cassette for CX at least (less chain needed and easier cage match compared to big 50t)? The Bailout/Wipeout cassette is a great base; as a slightly heavier sprinter, however, I’ve found that it’s just a bit limited when I get to the steep stuff and dislike the idea that I might be missing out at either end when compared to my S5 with standard Dura-Ace setup.

    Enter the 9-39 11spd cassette (I have one by ethirteen, paired with a 42t front). Yes, there is a jump on the big end as it goes from 33 to 39, but gear 10 is close to a 36-28 (1.29 vs 1.27) anyway and then you still get to keep the high-speed gear (9 and 42t for me) – ratio range from 4.67 to 1.08.

    Surely a nice 12sp cassette with this range that was lightweight (like the bailout etc) is the on/off-road solution 🙂

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      14 October 2019

      I’d love a 12-speed 9-38T cassette, but for some reason these drivetrain manufacturers don’t immediately go out and make something if I say I want it. Obviously with 11-speed we decided to get it done ourselves, but I would much rather have somebody else do it.

      Reply
  95. S

    Simon Mitchell says:

    10 October 2019

    Can I say. What an informative article and set of Q&A’. Something to be applauded. As a road rider and part time off roader looking to transition further away from the road, groupset compatibility with gearing has been my biggest stumbling block in deciding how to set up the one bike does both conundrum. After reading this, it’s feels so much clearer now and I think a lot of bikes shop should read this. Thank you

    Reply
  96. R

    Ricardo says:

    03 October 2019

    I had no idea about the chain. That tip alone makes this post worth reading (although I did find the rest of it interesting too!)

    Also, your comment on the 10-33 cassette for gravel hit home, as that spec DQ’d a certain bike from my 2020 shortlist (I’m guessing you were referring to that same model). I do wonder why SRAM didn’t include their very popular 10-42 gear range in the AXS groupsets, which Shimano did with GRX Di2 (kinda, as there are no actual GRX cassettes).

    Hopefully they’ll listen to you and offer such an option in the future??

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      07 October 2019

      Well, with GRX you have an 11-42T, not a 10-42T, but you can use the SRAM 10-42T with the GRX cassette. All 11-sp cassettes of course.

      Reply
      1. R

        Ricardo says:

        08 October 2019

        My bad, I just noticed I said 10-42 for GRX instead of 11-42, but it’s good to know a 10-42 11-speed cassette would also work with GRX. Thanks a lot!

        Reply
      2. M

        Marcel says:

        05 January 2020

        Hi, that means, i can use XX1 ASX (Designer for 12speed) with a 11speed cassette?
        In my case 10-42 and Front 40.
        Greets marcel

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          05 January 2020

          No, you cannot use the 11-speed cassette with the 12-speed rear derailleur. Ricardo’s question was about how he missed the 10-42 gearing on 12-speed and might therefore go with 11-speed GRX, which you could do and which would work with the 10-42 SRAM cassette despite being designed for the Shimano 11-42 cassette.

          Reply
  97. S

    Stephen says:

    29 September 2019

    Great article, Gerard. But what about those tyres on the Exploro pictured? I have them in 650×47 and they’re great – would love to try the 2″. Can’t find any trace of them anywhere…

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      29 September 2019

      Long story. Apparently WTB made the mold for the new Venture 650x47mm model but the tires came out big. So they made a smaller mold. But then some bike brands asked them to make the bigger one available. They didn’t want to confuse people, so they wanted to stick with just 47mm width for their RoadPlus tires. Their solution was to confuse people a different way :-), but throwing the bigger Venture over the wall and into their MTB line-up, hence the 27.5×2″ name instead of 650×51.

      But you’re right, it doesn’t show up on the WTB website. Right now it seems you can only get it if you’re a bike manufacturer, but I will ask them to see if they plan to bring it out aftermarket too.

      Reply
      1. S

        Stephen says:

        03 October 2019

        Great – thanks, Gerard.

        Perhaps that story also explains why the Venture 47 labelled tyres have the size 44 moulded into the sidewalls.

        Reply
  98. Mikey W says:

    29 September 2019

    This is an excellent article to clarify what, I guess, SRAM intend but haven’t marketed well.
    In my mind, what is still lacking in the cassette department is a nice, closer ratio one that has a 10t (a 10-36 12speed would be perfect) making it suitable for road wheel/tyre swaps onto gravel bikes, as versatility is a big appeal for this type of bike.
    The solution that I see is to use a 46t chainring with a 11-50 (12-50 would be better if there was such a thing) for the gravel wheel set and a rotor 11-39 for the road wheel set which, using a 35c slick tyre, would still give a decent top gear on the road.
    At least that route doesn’t involve converting any existing wheels to XD(R) drivers.
    What I’m not certain of is if the Eagle AXS rear mech would be happy to work with a 39t largest rear sprocket.
    Can anyone shed any light on that?
    And is it really worth it over the greater options of 11 speed?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      29 September 2019

      Hi Mikey, I agree that with a second cassette for road, it would be even nicer. And 10-36 is a great range, although the 36T is so small that it would probably not shift well with the Eagle derailleur. The 11-39 you mention would be a better option then. I’m not 100% sure if that shifts well with the Eagle derailleur, but I will get that checked.

      Reply
      1. Mikey says:

        29 September 2019

        Hi Gerard, thank you so much for the reply. Great to hear you’re on the same wavelength!
        I would really appreciate you checking if the 11-39 is useable as I’m almost ready to do that conversion, but would hate to buy that cassette to find it doesn’t work as they’re so damn expensive compared to 11 speed ones!!
        Keep up the fantastic work.

        Reply
        1. G

          Guy says:

          07 October 2019

          Same question from me. Currently using a 11-40 Shimano cassette with a Force CX1 mech and looking to replace with AXS but 10-33 is too small and 10-50 too big. The Rotor 11-39 would be a solution until SRAM bring out a 10-42 12 speed cassette.

          Reply
        2. Gerard Vroomen says:

          08 October 2019

          Yes, the 11-39T Rotor cassette works on our Force/Eagle Exploro (I presume it work on other bikes too, but these things are a little geometry-related so I can’t say for sure).

          Reply
          1. G

            Guy says:

            09 October 2019

            Great to know! Thank you.

            Reply
          2. Michael Waterjohns says:

            11 October 2019

            Brilliant. Many thanks for checking that Gerard.

            Reply
          3. Mikey says:

            28 October 2019

            Luckily I checked if a 46t chainring would fit my frame in 1x position before buying AXS. It doesn’t!! Back to the drawing board 🙁
            Gerard, when are 3T going to produce a Bailout in 12 speed?!!

            Reply
            1. Mikey says:

              28 October 2019

              Or alternatively, can a Force rear mech be persuaded to run the Rotor 12 speed 11-45 cassette by any chance? perhaps with a goat link? I’m still surprised SRAM haven’t’ made it more straightforward to go AXS on gravel bikes that are used for road sometimes. 42T chainring with the 10/33 for road and 11/42-45 for gravel would be the ideal I’d have thought.

              Reply
              1. Gerard Vroomen says:

                28 October 2019

                The Force rear derailleur cannot even shift the ROTOR 11-39 cassette so it certainly won’t shift the ROTOR 11-46. And the goat link won’t help. Maybe a road link would, not sure, but I somehow doubt it.

                Reply
                1. Mikey says:

                  29 October 2019

                  Thanks again for your valuable input Gerard. I did mean road link but muddled my links up!!
                  I’m surprised the 11-39 doesn’t run as I currently use 11-36 on 11speed Etap on my Strada without issue. I guess it’s got to be GRX 1X for the gravel bike then and a bailout casette for the road wheels.

                  Reply
                  1. Gerard Vroomen says:

                    29 October 2019

                    But I’m still not sure why you wouldn’t go with the Eagle rear derailleur and then put 11-39T on the road bike and 11-46T on the gravel bike. Even if you insist you need a 46T chainring with that, if you go with a flat ring (wolf tooth for example) instead of the offset rings from SRAM, there should be enough clearance.

                    Reply
  99. j

    jay says:

    29 September 2019

    What do you recommend for someone that’s still fairly new to gravel riding?

    I ride on the road a lot and don’t see that changing in the upcoming future, but want to get a setup that i can use for both gravel and road where the only thing i might change are the wheels (650b for gravel and 700c for road). My friend recommended that i do the 2x setup, but i’d like to use a 1x for simplicity.

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      30 September 2019

      Hi Jay, it’s really a combination of personal preference and where you ride. I ride a lot on the road, but I am not a racer. For road riding, 1x is completely adequate for me (even in racing, Magnus Sheffield was one of the stand-out riders at the Junior World Championships last week and made the podium racing on a Strada Pro with 1×11). Some may say “he’s just a junior” but 99% of the people reading this blog, including myself, would obviously get dropped like a bad habit by Magnus).

      The key thing with 1x is to be smart and honest about your need. There are a ton of people who have gears on their bike they never use, like a 52×11 as their biggest gear. Or if they hit that gear, it’s just for a few seconds before they spin out on a fast descent anyway. When you see where you really spend your time (if you ride Di2, it will tell you), then most people could do without their biggest gear. On a 2x drivetrain, that doesn’t really matter that much. You have too many gears anyway, so no harm in wasting a few. With 1x, you don’t want to waste your gears but pick the ones you really need. And since you have a road bike now, just look down the next few rides and see how often you’re really using the biggest one or two gears. And then determine what top gear you really need, what bottom gear, and pick the cassette range that matches it.

      The bottomline with 1x on the road is this: Almost everybody who tries it likes it. We see this time and again on our demo events, and a test ride almost always results in a purchase.. BUT: almost nobody is interested in trying. Even the pros, while some may not have found it ideal for racing (and in a big peloton, there are drawbacks), many of them said they would definitely ride 1x after they retire. And isn’t that the best we mere mortals can hope for anyway, to be like a retired pro? And we actually see that happening, we don’t really seek out ex-pros but Frank Schleck called us because he wanted a 1x road bike, same with Johnny Hoogerland (Mr. Tour de France barb wire) and several others.

      So on the road, I think you’ll be fine, and on gravel, it’s great. That said, your Exploro will be great with 2x as well, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

      Hope this helps.

      Reply
      1. Dr Neil says:

        30 September 2019

        Excellent article, and does a better job at explaining the intracicies of SRAM’s AXS then they do!

        I’m still loving my Strada Pro, gearing rarely presents me with an issue, but I’ve started to ponder about future gearing issues, as potential stab at Ventoux presents itself. I found out this year that 7-8% gradient is about my limit for prolonged climbing (I mean >3 miles, not short steep 15%+ ramps) on the 50Tx11-36, whilst in the Tarn region of France (RIMBY to follow v soon, I promise!) and something just a little more might work.

        I’ve got a 10-42T on my ‘cross bike (it wishes it was an Exploro, of course, maybe that’d help me up the finishing positions, rather than the eternal battle for “not last” – maybe you need more brand ambassadors 😉 😉 ), but using this would require a new rear mech I think (long cage), and if I’m doing that, well, heck maybe this AXS route might be a better longer term option. Just wondering if you had any experience of using that 10-42T casette on a Strada. Ah heck, maybe I’m over-thinking and just need to get bigger legs – you do those on the 3T site, right??

        Keep up the great articles!

        Neil

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          30 September 2019

          Funny, that’s one of my next topics for the Gravel Tech (excusez le mot). Anyway, I don’t think you’ll need a new rear mech, but more on that soon.

          Reply
  100. B

    Brian Jacobson says:

    28 September 2019

    You do not mention crank and chainring compatibility and chainring size. What would you recommend?

    Reply
    1. Gerard Vroomen says:

      28 September 2019

      Thanks for the comment. I have added the background info on the cranks. Is that what you were looking for? Please let me know.

      Reply
      1. B

        Brian Jacobson says:

        28 September 2019

        Thanks for the added info Gerard. Do you know how well the Force and Red AXS chainrings play with an eagle chain since the flat top chains have larger rollers?

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          29 September 2019

          The Eagle chain runs perfectly on the AXS road chainrings that are mounted on the Force & Red cranks.

          Reply
          1. J

            John Olsen says:

            07 January 2020

            Does 10-33 work with an eagle rd? Thinking 42×10-33 for the flats and 42×11-46 for the mountains.

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              08 January 2020

              No, it doesn’t really work well as you cannot adjust the B-gap that far.

              Reply
      2. A

        Andrei says:

        26 January 2020

        Hey, do you know if EAGLE AXS 12 speed derailleur with eagle chain is compatible with sram force 1 crankset, or easton 90 cranks? Or i need to use only force AXS crankset? Thank you!

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          26 January 2020

          Yes that’s compatible, that’s also what you see on the brown bike above. And it is sort of the crux of it all, by doing that you can get the gearing of Eagle but keep your efficient – narrow Q-factor – road crank. Easton also works, as does the 3T Torno crank (which gives you the most narrow Q-factor). For the latter, all rings (36-40-42-44-46) work with the Eagle chain.

          Reply
          1. A

            Andrei says:

            26 January 2020

            Gerard, thanks for detailed reply. But on brown 3T i’m seeing new force axs crankset, but i was originally referred to old force 1 one by crankset (without axs).

            Reply
            1. Gerard Vroomen says:

              27 January 2020

              That chainring should also work with the Eagle chain (just like on the torno both the “11-speed” and “12-speed” rings work). Worst case you replace just the ring, there is no problem with the crank.

              Reply
      3. R

        Rogha says:

        01 June 2020

        Hi, can you use the AXS force crankset chainring with 11 speed chain for Ultegra?

        Reply
        1. Gerard Vroomen says:

          03 June 2020

          The bolt pattern is not the same, so no. And using a true 11-speed ring is not compatible with a true 12-speed Flattop chain either. With 11/12-speed chains, potentially (but you still couldn’t bolt the one onto the other).

          Reply
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